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Thread: Big tobacco take on e-cigarette's health issue

  1. #31
    PV Master ECF Veteran patkin's Avatar
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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalr View Post
    Look, I think you have me confused with someone else here. I came here to get a second opinion on what I had heard. It's definitely because I couldn't find any proof whatsoever of what I'd heard that I posted this. It's because I care about my health that I feel concerned and willing to explore all possibilities, not the least because extended research on the field is kinda thin. I can't see, in what I wrote, what may make you think I had any kind of proof when my very first message was about getting a second opinion.

    If there's no truth to what I heard, then fine! I'll be feeling much better about vaping.

    You can call me over-cautious, yes. Over-zealous in my quest for information, yes. But being called a troll? Really?
    Hey wait, I meant no offense. I was trying to clarify before we got too far into the debate....1) if we are talking American BT because if not, that changes the whole context of the conversation 2) if you had any facts of which I or others reading may not be privy. I'm not calling you a troll. I'm actually on your side to the extent that I think being able to back up an argument that is founded in data and hard science is paramount to winning the battle. I think you actually made a very important post for 3 reasons: 1) it gives us insight into the thought process of those at BT 2) it gives us points to ponder on our own searches as to the legitimacy of the safety of vaping 3) you make us think and that's always good in my book.

    P.S. I think many share your concern and caution with vaping, so you are neither alone in that concern, nor a troll for being concerned. There are people with allergies, people seeking the healthiest way to vape after leaving the smoking lifestyle behind. I will post some links here that may give you more info on the subject...it may take a few days.

    http://casaa.org/FAQS_ecig.html

    http://casaa.org/Clinical_Research.html

    http://tobaccoharmreduction.org/faq/nicotine.htm

    http://casaa.org/Smokefree_Health_Effects.html

    http://publichealth.drexel.edu/SiteD...0e603/ms08.pdf

    Glycerine vapor and acrolein - the issues

    http://ec.europa.eu/health/tobacco/p..._eu_activities

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...-nicotine.html

    http://www.healthnz.co.nz/cancerrisk.htm

    Of particular interest in the above link is this quote:

    "In e-cigarettes, the nicotine inhaled per puff is much less than (about one tenth) in a cigarette puff, and risk of cancer in mice from nicotine in their diet is of great theoretical interest for researchers, but no proven effect for humans."

    http://truthaboutecigs.com/scares_2.php
    Last edited by flowerpots; 10-30-2013 at 12:16 AM.
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by patkin View Post
    I am also just as confused by your apparent defensiveness.
    Calling somebody a troll does tend to bring that out, don't you think?

    As soon as that happened, the rest of the topic wasn't going to go too well. It's a conversation stopper.

    May as well close this one up.
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    ECF Guru ECF Veteran wv2win's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racehorse View Post
    I didn't see anything specific in the study that was done at Drexel on exactly how nicotine molecules are vaporized DIFFERENTLY on different temperature atomizers and the effect of consistency of atomizer temperatures on nicotine eliquids? (ie. esp. the "burnt" hit?)

    That was what the researcher above was futzing around with.....maybe I missed reading that part of the Drexel study, can somebody link me to the appropriate test results on that?

    Unless I missed reading that part.
    Logic tells me that any inconsistencies between one atomizer and another atomizer and how it heats eliquid, would not be so significantly different that it would cause one atomizer to create dangerous nicotine molecules and one that would not. I'm not a researcher but that just does not pass the "BS" test.

    And then there is the issue of "what level of risk". As we know all too well from the infamous FDA test of 18 eliquid cartridges, you can state that there is a "risk" and forget to tell everyone that the risk is .01% and not significant. Since the symptoms of nicotine overdose are well recognized, if this "inconsistency" was an issue, after this many years of millions of people vaping, we would have known about it by now.

    I'm not questioning the OP, but his friend has not passed the "BS" test.
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    PV Master ECF Veteran patkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racehorse View Post
    Calling somebody a troll does tend to bring that out, don't you think?

    As soon as that happened, the rest of the topic wasn't going to go too well. It's a conversation stopper.

    May as well close this one up.
    So where was that done? I scanned the thread again and don't find it. Did you mean for it to sound like I did? I guess its a matter of interpretation. To each their own.

  7. #36
    Super Member Supporting Member JulesXsmokr's Avatar
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    Please have your friend give you his research papers, and share it with us, so we can all verify this "talk"..
    If he is your friend and wants to save you health problems, it should not be a problem since he and his fellow researchers have already done this scientific study.
    Big Tobacco means Big Trouble for the E-Cig Industry, they want to bribe and try to prove that their way, and only their products work as intended.

  8. #37
    Uma
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalr View Post
    Hi!

    Yesterday evening, I spent the evening with a friend working for a big tobacco name as a lab researcher. He saw me vaping and flat out told me that it was way worse than an analog, according to tests he had conducted himself.

    His argument was that of all e-cigarettes models he tested, none were able to produce consistent temperature of the atomizer. It meant that the nicotine contained in the e-liquid would react differently between two tokes. As such, a "burnt" nicotine molecule would produce cancerous molecules way worse than in an analog. He attributed this behavior to the e-cigarette's inability to control the delivery of e-liquid to the atomizer. When underfed, the atomizer would burn too hot, while when overflown, the atomizer would light up to a lower temperature.

    Consequently, he mentioned the inability of an e-cigarette to control the size of the vapor drops: the biggest (low temperature) would get stuck in the throat, while the smallest (burnt) would go as far as the alveolars of the lungs.

    Before starting vaping, I have read almost any study I could lay my hands on and none mentioned this in particular. When I confronted my friend with this, he mentioned than even the biggest universities didn't have the testing equipment big tobacco industries had.

    His advice to me was: if you must vape, do it without nicotine. If you need your nicotine, light up a fag, it's way less harmful to you.

    I have known this friend for a long time and completely trust him. I know that he wouldn't try big tobacco propaganda on me and he looked genuinely worried seeing me vaping. This evening has left me pondering on what he told me. I'd be quite interested to hear your opinion (or first-hand lab knowledge) on this. Is there really cause for concern?
    Maybe he should try a regulated battery like a Provari.
    UNITED WE STAND... divided we fall.
    Join http://casaa.org & protect your right to vape

  9. #38
    Ultra Member Verified Member LDS714's Avatar
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    There is a difference between research of "Find out about X" and research of "Find things about X that make it compare in a specified manner with Y."

    I've seen both types...

    The question is which is being reported by your friend?
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    Senior Member Verified Member onjre's Avatar
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    It seems there can be no discussion here. The friend says he knows something no one else can verify so even if good information to the contrary is shown it is assumed that it was done with inferior equipment and therefore can be thrown out. We also cannot discuss directly with the person making the claim so additional clarification on how tests were performed and what is harmful about particle size is unavailable. What is there to debate?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
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    Not sure if this was mentioned earlier or not but your friend had mentioned that it was burning at too high of a temp and producing different chemicals through oxidation. I am curious as to what temperature he is saying this would happen, being that tobacco I believe burns at around 300 degrees (correct me if im wrong).

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