Old school alternative to cigarettes

[SnarkyClark]

Sorry, I was merely going off of what the American Association of Public Health Physicians said in their report on the bill:

Holding the snus and alternative nicotine delivery to the research standards of pharmaceutical products would cost the manufacturers millions of dollars per product and would deny current smokers the benefits of these products for a decade or more. Furthermore, such studies probably could not be conducted at current American academic centers because Institutional Review Board (IRB) guidelines would likely prohibit case/control studies on products with no therapeutic benefit. Thus, the seemingly reasonable research standards in the Waxman bill would likely result in a de-facto ban on all such products. AAPHP therefore favors the research guidelines from the Buyer bill [alternative legislation introduced by Rep. Steve Buyer (R-Ind.)].

Original text found here: http://www.aaphp.org/special/2009/20090327tobcltr.pdf

I do like your interpretation better, Bob

And yes, I spend almost as more time fussing and cleaning my pipe as smoking it. I also smoke it terribly slow: one 'load' lasts me about an hour, and at once a day I have gone through about half an ounce of tobacco in a week (it's a small briar).

I quite originally because I was starting to inhale my pipe on weekend after smoking cigarettes all week. Stupid habit got to ingrained I guess. But after a successful cold turkey switch from analogs to e-cigs a month ago I find that I can't inhale smoke anymore. I even tried to inhale a cig a couple days ago and my throat cinched right up on me.

So now I find myself once again free to enjoy a leisurely pipe each evening. I will be curling up tonight with a new potential friend; some Cornell & Diehl "Snug Harbor". It's a blend of Burleys, Turkish, Latakia and Perique with just a hint of vanilla flavoring. The Virginias always tend to bite me a bit. Guess I just have a sensitive tongue (and/or I have gotten quite rusty at the art of smoking a pipe).

[Mohave]

I'm sure none of us wanted to jump down your throat, if that's what if seemed like Snarky.

Thanks for the link to that AAPHP testimony. I hadn't seen it before. Of course their bullet point relating to the effect on snus will be true for any product which was not on the market soon enough to meet the legislation's cutoff date. Which products may or may not qualify to be grandfathered in, aye, there's the rub.

So far as I can tell it seems clear Star Scientific's Stonewall/Arriva dissolvables shouldn't get classified as "new" under the legislation. I think Camel's snus may have been around long enough, but I don't know if that is correct. I am greatly concerned about Swedish snus, as that may be subject to interpretation during FDA rulemaking after the legislation becomes law, and I sure don't like the tack taken on these kinds of issues by anti-tobacco crusaders who will be influential in that process.

I need to go haul some more ammo and snus up to the cave.

EDIT to add:

From the MANUFACTURER'S WEBSITE under “Frequently Asked Questions.”

Is dissolvable tobacco a new product?

Ariva has been in the marketplace since 2001, and Stonewall has been sold since 2003. By our estimate more than one million people have tried these products since then...

The “new product” cutoff date in the version of the legislation I've read is in 2007.

RE-EDIT to add:

Camel snus history:

The Camel Snus manufacturing venture was solely started by RJ Reynolds on 28th April 28, 2006, and the product was initially introduced in the areas of Austin, Texas and Portland Oregon. This Camel Snus was further introduced to eight more states. In the month of May, 2008, RJ Reynolds took Camel Snus into the key markets of Chicago, Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York and Washington, D.C.

http://www.snusgeneral.com/CamelSnus.html

From the text of the bill:

‘SEC. 910. APPLICATION FOR REVIEW OF CERTAIN TOBACCO PRODUCTS.
‘(a) In General-
‘(1) NEW TOBACCO PRODUCT DEFINED- For purposes of this section the term ‘new tobacco product’ means--
‘(A) any tobacco product (including those products in test markets) that was not commercially marketed in the United States as of February 15, 2007; or
‘(B) any modification (including a change in design, any component, any part, or any constituent, including a smoke constituent, or in the content, delivery or form of nicotine, or any other additive or ingredient) of a tobacco product where the modified product was commercially marketed in the United States after February 15, 2007.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-1256

Looks like that phrase “including those products in test markets” could be a problem.

[TropicalBob]

Thanks for chasing down those specifics, Mohave. I have to agree with your conclusion that both Camel and Swedish snus could face consequences under this bill.

Frankly, this is getting depressing. It seems certain we'll soon get negative action on e-smoking, which could remove it as a viable smoking alternative. Then they'll turn to snus and dissolvables. I like my pipe, and it will remain legal, but I would surely miss the other options I now use to stay off cigarettes.

[frogbmth]

Has anybody tried the VaporGenie?

VaporGenie

[Nick O'Teen]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

no real pipe smoker inhales. Only ex-cig smokers who don't know better.

Y'know, inhaling wasn't only suddenly invented when cigarettes came along (and they didn't really get popular until WW1.) Your average corncob-tokin' bubba, or even the old boys smoking clays up in the valleys round here, have been inhaling all along without the prerequisite of a cigarette habit.
Just because white, middle class, middle-aged briar connoisseurs (no offence intended - I fit that demographic too ) like to appreciate the esoteric rituals and imagined exclusive sensibilities, doesn't mean they have a complete monopoly on enjoying the art of pipe smoking.
I have a wide collection of briars, clays, meerschaums and porcelain pipes which I have cherished and accumulated over many years.

I toked a cob for my daily habit, because it would be sacrilege to cremate a fine briar by chain-smoking it just to feed a nicotine addiction. But you can appreciate foie gras AND Burger King, even if the connoisseurs may sneer at the latter. I applaud your taste and refinement, but spare a thought for your Elizabethan, Jacobean and Georgian forebears, who inhaled their pipes because cigarettes had not yet been invented.

We are all Sir Walter's heirs, one way or another

[strayling]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

Cig smokers are frantic and stressed much of the time. A cig smoker often goes nuts trying to adapt to pipe smoking's slow rituals of cleaning, packing, lighting, etc. Cig smokers want their fix right now!

...

Pipe smokers also have an incredible assortment of flavors, types of tobacco, and styles of pipe. A lifetime could be devoted to simply trying them all. And the urge to "collect" is strong.

Vaping can share some of these characteristics and that's one reason I like it. There's the ritual of filling carts, getting the filler adjusted satisfactorily, putting the device together and settling back for a relaxed vape. One cart lasts about an hour for me and then it's time to repeat the process.

Collecting: well, a quick scan of the messages here shows how popular that is. There are so many different types of e-cig and it can become a quest for the perfect vape.

Same goes for the different liquids, mixing your own to get exactly the right strength and flavour.

Of course you *can* just slap in a cart and puff away like a maniac, but that's not half as much fun.

[Mohave]

Thanks in advance to any who might feel like taking the time:

1. Do you think (properly) smoking a pipe can be realistic as a more than occasional alternative for a heavy (2+ pack/day) cigarette smoker?

2. Is there any advice anyone would care to offer someone new to pipe smoking: choice of pipe(s), type of tobacco, methods, tips & tricks, etc? Bear in mind your audience is someone who has no experience with pipes, pipe tobacco, or any aspect of using them, knows nothing of the subject, and would rather not make a large investment while he is not certain if he will take to it, or to what extent he might find it satisfying.

3. How do you think the long range total cost compares to other choices?

4. I gather from the above that a pipe involves some degree of complexity in use and perhaps a considerable amount of preparation time. Does this tend to make it difficult to use very often outside of home?

[SnarkyClark]

Originally Posted by strayling

Vaping can share some of these characteristics and that's one reason I like it. There's the ritual of filling carts, getting the filler adjusted satisfactorily, putting the device together and settling back for a relaxed vape. One cart lasts about an hour for me and then it's time to repeat the process... Of course you *can* just slap in a cart and puff away like a maniac, but that's not half as much fun.

I see this as a primary reason that if (or when, depending on your outlook) e-cigs and most forms of smokeless tobacco are effectively "snuffed out", pipes may be a suitable fallback for some of us. But please do not inhale. It is not a question of class, but of health. I wore plaid shirts from age 3 to 13, but I still would not inhale pipe tobacco smoke - simply because I prefer breathing to weezing.

I find that using 'real' pipe tobacco helps. Captain Black, Half & Half, and other drug store pipe tobac are fine enough, but they really are just cigarette tobac shredded differently. Hence they tend to encourage inhaling.

The fancy stuff can even be cheaper then the cheap pouches. Where I live a 1.5oz pouch of Captain Black Gold is 7.99, and I just ordered a 2oz tin of C&D hand blended for 8.19. I dare anyone to inhale a quality Burley/Virginia blend. If you don't cough up a lung or two, then you may have much bigger health problems then smoking...

[SnarkyClark]

Originally Posted by Mohave

Thanks in advance to any who might feel like taking the time:

1. Do you think (properly) smoking a pipe can be realistic as a more than occasional alternative for a heavy (2+ pack/day) cigarette smoker?

2. Is there any advice anyone would care to offer someone new to pipe smoking: choice of pipe(s), type of tobacco, methods, tips & tricks, etc? Bear in mind your audience is someone who has no experience with pipes, pipe tobacco, or any aspect of using them, knows nothing of the subject, and would rather not make a large investment while he is not certain if he will take to it, or to what extent he might find it satisfying.

3. How do you think the long range total cost compares to other choices?

TB can cover this much better then me, but here are my thoughts:

1. Depends on the smoker and the pipe tobac selected. I have some that even when not inhaled will knock you on your but nicotine-wise. But even I still use an e-cig (in the mornings and at lunch).

2. Find a local tobacconist (good tobacco shop). Go in and chat for awhile. That would be my number 1 piece of advice.

3. I have spent about $50 in equip to get into it, and about $16 in supplies that will last me over a month. But then again I'm a cheapskate and we have an old college nearby (re: inexpensive quality pipes), so YMMV.

[strayling]

Originally Posted by SnarkyClark

I see this as a primary reason that if (or when, depending on your outlook) e-cigs and most forms of smokeless tobacco are effectively "snuffed out", pipes may be a suitable fallback for some of us. But please do not inhale. It is not a question of class, but of health.

No fear. I know better than to try that after doing it *once* many years ago.