Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer - Page 3
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Thread: Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadcat2 View Post
    Kent, that's a lot of information, but I think it is valid and important.

    I was trying to keep this as short and simple as possible.
    But there are some good points I will work into my post later.
    Thanks. I thought it was one area that needed more info, as it is the one subject that has caused the most frustration for those new to ecigs. All your other points are concise and thoroughly 'stickyable' imo. I'd vote sticky.

    I may try an edit myself and send it to you.

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    Bumping this up as I finished the edit on manual vs. auto battery post that is, I think, better/more objective than my first edit... I ran it by DeadCat2 first.

    Buying and Using an Electronic Cigarette: A Primer

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    Default Bump Please Sticky

    Bump Please Sticky
    Alfred E. Newman "What, Me Worry?"

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    Default Sticky!!

    Very nice DC and Kent!!!! Makes it nice to go to one place and look for the info rather than skimming though the forums.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwhite View Post
    Very nice DC and Kent!!!! Makes it nice to go to one place and look for the info rather than skimming though the forums.
    Thanks JW. If they don't make it a sticky, I have it saved out...

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    My take on this issue is here: Manual and Automatic Batteries

    Not very different. Conclusion: you need to try both to know which best suits; but automatics wear out / clog. I'd prefer an automatic, but current ones are not too reliable longer term.
    Last edited by kinabaloo; 08-31-2009 at 08:13 AM.

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    All this information is out there, but it's spread all over the forum. Very nice job putting it all in one place. Should be very useful to lots of people.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Davis View Post
    OK - We have a difference of opinion, and we can hash this back and forth till the cows come home.

    If Deadcat is happy with his post - OK. If you would like to put together another post on the items you think are left out & important, by all means, make it up. And in all fairness to you, we can leave it to another person to review & stick. I have my opinions, but I like to think I'm fair also.

    Put a post together, or use/edit the one you posted for deadcat, and we can get a neutral party to do the rest. Furthermore, if you think our discussion will harm the meaning or point of your informational post, I'm more than happy to delete our discussion, so you can post yours fresh.
    Jim,

    From my post above, I think this is the most important part as far as informing the new member on the difference between auto and manual.

    Cut and paste with the additional 'both' comment:

    =====

    Manual or Automatic battery


    Manual batteries require you to push a button to activate the battery.
    Automatic batteries are activated by sound or the act of drawing on the ecigarette.

    Automatic Batteries:

    You have liquid in the cartridge. In order for the liquid to become vapor, it has to be vaporized. For that to happen the atomizer must heat to the point of vaporizing the liquid. Auto batteries are activated by drawing on the ecig or producing noise of drawing. The sequence is:

    1. draw
    2. battery activates
    3. atomizer begins to heat up
    4. the atomizer continues to heat up
    5. the liquid is vaporized
    6. you inhale

    From 1 to 3 the liquid is still in liquid form. From 3 to 4 _some of the liquid_ in the area of the atomizer is still in liquid form. From 1 to 4 the mouth piece is acting like a straw and you can get liquid in your mouth.

    One workaround is to take what's called a 'primer puff' - where you make the noise of drawing to start the battery but do not continue to draw. You then wait for the atomizer to atomize the liquid and then draw. Another work around is to start to draw but not very hard - because you'll get juice in your mouth - this sometimes starts the battery and sometimes it doesn't. If it does, if you then increase the amount of draw pressure and draw slowly like drinking a thick shake through a straw. But this prolonged drag can also take time to where you may run into the auto battery's 'cutoff' where the atomizer shuts off. Sometimes a 'waiting period' to where you can't start the cycle again, because the auto battery is still in the 'cutoff mode'. Iow, the battery controls you at that point.


    Manual Batteries:

    With manual batteries, you have to push a small button in order to start the above 1-6 sequence.

    Here, the only part of this that is not part of the smoking experience is pushing the button. When you push the button before drawing, numbers 2 through 5 above occur before you take a draw. When you do draw, you draw vapor not juice, and this is very much more like taking a drag on a cigarette.

    And, most people say that using the button in this manner becomes second nature in less than a day.

    Some models are available with both the auto and manual batteries.
    ====

    Regards....

  9. #29
    Super Member ECF Veteran Ez Duzit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kent C View Post
    Jim,

    From my post above, I think this is the most important part as far as informing the new member on the difference between auto and manual.

    Cut and paste with the additional 'both' comment:

    =====

    Manual or Automatic battery


    Manual batteries require you to push a button to activate the battery.
    Automatic batteries are activated by sound or the act of drawing on the ecigarette.

    Automatic Batteries:

    You have liquid in the cartridge. In order for the liquid to become vapor, it has to be vaporized. For that to happen the atomizer must heat to the point of vaporizing the liquid. Auto batteries are activated by drawing on the ecig or producing noise of drawing. The sequence is:

    1. draw
    2. battery activates
    3. atomizer begins to heat up
    4. the atomizer continues to heat up
    5. the liquid is vaporized
    6. you inhale

    From 1 to 3 the liquid is still in liquid form. From 3 to 4 _some of the liquid_ in the area of the atomizer is still in liquid form. From 1 to 4 the mouth piece is acting like a straw and you can get liquid in your mouth.

    One workaround is to take what's called a 'primer puff' - where you make the noise of drawing to start the battery but do not continue to draw. You then wait for the atomizer to atomize the liquid and then draw. Another work around is to start to draw but not very hard - because you'll get juice in your mouth - this sometimes starts the battery and sometimes it doesn't. If it does, if you then increase the amount of draw pressure and draw slowly like drinking a thick shake through a straw. But this prolonged drag can also take time to where you may run into the auto battery's 'cutoff' where the atomizer shuts off. Sometimes a 'waiting period' to where you can't start the cycle again, because the auto battery is still in the 'cutoff mode'. Iow, the battery controls you at that point.


    Manual Batteries:

    With manual batteries, you have to push a small button in order to start the above 1-6 sequence.

    Here, the only part of this that is not part of the smoking experience is pushing the button. When you push the button before drawing, numbers 2 through 5 above occur before you take a draw. When you do draw, you draw vapor not juice, and this is very much more like taking a drag on a cigarette.

    And, most people say that using the button in this manner becomes second nature in less than a day.

    Some models are available with both the auto and manual batteries.
    ====

    Regards....
    Kent this isn't any kind of slam, because anything that will help new people is good. And I appreciate the time you took with this guide, but...

    It's a bit misleading.
    Your description of the automatic batteries is actually pretty biased. You make it sound like a certainty, that buying an automatic unit will doom you with these problems, no exceptions, and that is very far from the truth.
    I have a 401 automatic and have none of the problems you mentioned. While the potential for any of those things is there when you buy an automatic, carefully choosing the correct model will minimize or eliminate most, if not all of them.
    Yes some units have a 3 or 4 second cutoff. But some models, like the 401 for example, actually have a 7 second cutoff. That is enough that most people will never actually cause it to engage. Certain models though, like the Red Dragon 2 piece unit, do have a shorter cutoff time. So by doing some research before buying, you can minimize the potential for this kind of problem.

    You also make it sound like people need a degree just to take a hit from an automatic. And that they are almost guaranteed to get juice in the mouth. So, let me ask. Does using a manual battery guarantee that I won't ever get juice in my mouth?

    As for the battery sometimes starting, and sometimes not starting when you take a draw. C'mon!! I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but much more so with a cheap unit, or an older model. Yes, occasionally someone will post about a new unit that has that problem. But considering how many units are sold, it's a small percentage. As e-cigs progress, quality is constantly improving, and I would have to say, this is another thing that is the exception, not the norm. Sometimes the auto batteries do stick, and that is usually cured with a few light taps on the desk. Also this a good spot to again ask something about manual batteries. Do they, (manual units), ever come with defective batteries?

    My point is, you magnified everything regarding the automatic battery. But with the manual battery, you basically said, just push the button and vape.

    People reading this, and trying to make a decision to buy, will categorize automatics as bad, and manual batteries as good, because that's the way you have painted the picture. The truth is, there are some pretty good automatic units to be had.

    Like I said up top, please don't take my post the wrong way. But if I read this before I purchased my 401, I might not have bought it, and that would have been a mistake!


    Ez
    Last edited by Ez Duzit; 09-02-2009 at 12:19 PM.

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    I disagree with you EZ. I'm not sure what you mean by "cheap model" but I'd say I have a 50% chance of getting juice in my mouth with my auto 901 batteries compared to the 5% chance with my 901 manual or 510 manual. I'm talking about right after a fill up for drip, not half way through the cart. No juice either way in this case.

    Also, I'm pretty sure 901s have a 7 or 8 second cutoff, and I reach it more often than not.

    One more thing. You say that it's rare that auto batteries don't start when you take a draw. No it's not. Again, I don't believe new 901 batteries qualify as a cheap or old unit, but it certainly happens. Like you said, it isn't often, but sometimes you need to draw harder than others. Most people don't complain about this because it's very minor, but it's just another advantage of manuals.

    I thought the auto 901 was great until I got manual batteries for it. It's such a huge difference that it's really not even comparable. The ONLY thing that auto has going for it is that you can leave it in your mouth for a full drag without using any hands.

    Combine that with some auto batteries (no, not only "cheap" ones) sometimes randomly firing up the atomizer when sitting on your desk or driving with the window down, I think that manual is the clear way to go, especially for a beginner. The more frustrations you encounter in the beginning, the more likely you are to go back to analogs.


    edit: Deadcat, I think it might be beneficial to put something along the lines of "most people take a much longer drag on an e-cig than they would on an analog" in the auto battery section. When I was first trying to figure out what PV to get, I brushed off the auto cutoff, because I hit an analog for only a second or 2 most of the time.
    Last edited by mcl5000; 09-02-2009 at 12:40 PM.

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