Nic OD or somthing else

[jimgman]

agreed mimi. its very easy to vape too often..its very addictive, hehe. my thought was to have low lvl stuff for sitting around the house, and higher for when i was at work, and could only sneak a few puffs every once in a while. i'm doing better now, but unfortunately, the symptoms of underdosing and overdosing are too damn similar.both give me light headed dizziness and heart racing-i'm very familiar with underdosing since i would have to go 4 hour blocks at work when i was on analogs(no smoking on the premises, and not allowed to leave the building except lunch break)...i started using a touch of chewing tobacco to offset that.now i sneak into the bathroom every hour or 2 to vape.

[Myk]

I still think, and hope, that this is as 'simple' as nicotine OD.....although the symptoms take quite some time to appear and then seem to come and go. That odd timing is what doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't seem to have much of a predictable pattern so how can one deal with it??

My mental issue is that simple nicotine OD doesn't act like that with cigarettes, cigars, chew, snuff or pipes.
You OD, puke, lay down, have a headache, your heart may beat for a time and it's over. It's very predictable.

With these e-cigs the OD seems to take a while to build up and then take a while to leave.

If it was just me I could write it off as panic and somatism. But since it's happening to more than what could be written off as the percentage of people with panic disorder it seems to be real, and that gives me cause to panic.

[Kate]

* TIME COURSE: Nicotine poisoning typically (but not always) produces toxicity in two phases: stimulation/excitation (early) followed quickly by inhibition/depression (late). Some patient/victims may only exhibit late phase effects. Onset of physical effects is dependent on route of exposure. Early phase findings occur within 15 minutes to 1 hour. Vomiting is the most common symptom of nicotine poisoning. Late phase findings occur within 30 minutes to 4 hours. The duration of symptoms is about 1 to 2 hours following mild exposure, and up to 18 to 24 hours following severe exposure. Death may occur within 1 hour after severe exposure.

* EFFECTS OF SHORT-TERM (LESS THAN 8-HOURS) EXPOSURE: At low concentrations, nicotine causes tremor and increases in heart rate, respiratory rate, blood pressure, and level of alertness. More severe exposures cause muscle fasciculations (involuntary twitching), seizures, and abnormal heart rhythms; these effects are followed by multi-system organ depression including slow heart rate (bradycardia), low blood pressure (hypotension), and paralysis of the muscles that control breathing. Vomiting occurs in more then 50% of symptomatic patient/victims. Death may occur, and is typically due to paralysis of the muscles that control breathing, a build-up of fluid in the airways (bronchorrhea), and failure of the heart and blood vessels (cardiovascular collapse).
The Emergency Response Safety and Health Database: Systemic Agent: NICOTINE

[Ladycats]

Good LORD people......I didn't think they made cigarettes with 36mg of nicotine, why in the world would you put that much nic in your body when you've been given a chance to lower it. I thought I'd try the 4mg and go to o from there. Sounds like I am one of the few on this site!! Just call me 2 cardi's or wussy

I call it "Common Sense" ... which sadly, oft times seems to be in very short supply.......

[TropicalBob]

Jigtg, we've disagreed on something in the past, but your post is the most learned in this thread that I just got around to reading. And you certainly explain why many hard-core addicts, myself included, feel nothing from e-smoking. I am already so high on nicotine that nothing in vapor can make a dent.

As for strength of nic in vapor, this is from the presentation that led to the Australian ban on e-liquid and the devices that use it.

The nicotine levels per inhalation are considerably lower than traditional cigarettes.

And this is the definition of our devices from that same report:

The sole purpose of the product is to facilitate and perpetuate nicotine addiction, not the treatment of the addiction.

I would say that of all the threads on this forum, this one would be the most useful to those who want to ban our devices. Read about pounding hearts and sweaty faces, think about OD'ing while driving a car in rush hour traffic, wonder who will be first to have a heart attack from nicotine vapor inhalation. Ammunition. We must be saved from our irresponsible selves, and government is oh-so-willing to do that.

I expect to find much of this thread quoted some day in an FDA hearing report on our "healthy" practice.

[Frankie]

But this forum is not just a promotional venue for e-cig sales. Our practice has its dangers and the users are trying to help others prevent the same happening to them. If the powers to be decide to ban e-cigs, it will be for the fear of the loss of tax money and they will use any excuse, forum-based or other.

I think people would OD much worse if they were not warned. Actually, I would like to see real warnings from the vendors at their sites. Telling customer who buy 36mg/ml liquid that the lethal dose for an adult is 40-60 mg and for a child 10 mg would be a good start.

Lies about vaping cause much more damage in the long term than telling the truth. And most of us users would like to have this for a very long term indeed.

[TropicalBob]

Just stating a fact.

I've been a proponent of free speech and free press all my adult life. Just stating a fact. You WILL see these very comments before regulatory agencies. In Australia, much of the presentation to ban e-cigs consisted of "screen grabs" from the Internet. You can bet suppliers' claims on Web sites are already captured and indexed for presentation.

[Myk]

Does that mean they will also use all the success stories of quitting cigarettes too?

If not they're cherry picking and there's nothing you can do to change their minds. They will manipulate information to suit their goals.

I would welcome tests that would tell us exactly how much nicotine we are getting and how it compares to different cigarettes usages.
I would welcome tested liquids.

But if their goal is to simply ban e-cigs because it looks like smoking and to line their own pockets and the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies they will find a way to justify it with or without us.

[Frankie]

Good point. There are 100 quitters for one OD-er here.

[jigtg]

Jigtg, we've disagreed on something in the past, but your post is the most learned in this thread that I just got around to reading. And you certainly explain why many hard-core addicts, myself included, feel nothing from e-smoking. I am already so high on nicotine that nothing in vapor can make a dent.

As for strength of nic in vapor, this is from the presentation that led to the Australian ban on e-liquid and the devices that use it.



And this is the definition of our devices from that same report:



I would say that of all the threads on this forum, this one would be the most useful to those who want to ban our devices. Read about pounding hearts and sweaty faces, think about OD'ing while driving a car in rush hour traffic, wonder who will be first to have a heart attack from nicotine vapor inhalation. Ammunition. We must be saved from our irresponsible selves, and government is oh-so-willing to do that.

I expect to find much of this thread quoted some day in an FDA hearing report on our "healthy" practice.

Ruyan knows by now nic OD is a potential problem and if they are even half as smart as I think they are and this becomes too big of a problem, they will introduce e-liquid that you cannot OD. Capsacin might work for instance. I doubt this will happen any time soon though as who would believe this kind of e-liquid being chinese manufactured and all would be safe. Has anyone tried Aeros Smokeless Cigarettes for comparison. Interesting idea though.