Selecting the correct juice density.

[Al Bundy]

Hey everyone. I jotted down some rough numbers to determine the correct juice density to replace my analogs and here is what I have so far.

My regular analog is a Marlboro Menthol Light, Hard Pack. According to the Erowid site under Plants,Tobacco (can't post links yet)

the nicotine per cigarette is approximately 0.7 mg for my particular brand.

So from here I took some basic information I found on the web to approximate the juice to the analog, where the density of the juice is mg/ml, so a 36 mg juice would contain 36 mg/ml.

Now from what I've read, a cigarette will last approximately 12 - 15 puffs which is roughly equivalent to 0.1 ml of juice, or 2 drops (0.05 ml/drop).

From this we can determine the ml/puff. There's no way to know how many ml/puff you're actually using when vaping because of variances in the atomizer, battery power, etc., so I'm just going to assume the lower amount is closer to the actual value as a rough estimate.

12 puffs: 0.1 ml / 12 puffs = .00833 ml/puff

Now since my particular brand has 0.7 mg / cigarette, we can determine the mg/puff.

12 puffs: 0.7 mg / 12 puffs = 0.0583 mg/puff

Multiplying the (ml/puff)* (puff/ml) yields the density:

(0.0583 mg / 1 puff) * (1 puff / 0.00833 ml) = 6.9987 mg/ml or 7 mg/ml.

------------------------------------------------------

Now what I'm not understanding is why the juice comes in such high densities? According to that site, the highest nicotine amount is approximately 2mg / cigarette (English Ovals).

at 12 puffs: (2.0 mg / 12 puffs) * (1 puff / 0.00833 ml)= 20 mg/ml.

From this it would appear 36 mg density juice is roughly equivalent to 3.6 mg/cigarette which is the equivalent of 5.14 cigarettes of my current brand. Smoking 5 cigarettes at once doesn't exactly seem prudent.

However, I'm not sure as to the absorption efficiencies of analogs vs vapor though so my rough estimates may be off quite a bit.

Thoughts/Comments?

[Walrus]

Some people like a really strong smoke, or there wouldn't be such a thing as Pall Mall or Lucky Strike.

I, however, purchase the 36mg strength as a cost-saving measure. The bottles of e-liquid cost the same no matter the strength, at least with every vendor I've looked at.

I buy the strong stuff then cut it down with Glycerine. Some folks buy PG. If I cut it in half, then my liquid is 18mg, and I've spent maybe a dollar on a second bottle. PG costs about $22 per gallon. I bought a 16 oz bottle of gylerine for about $9.

[Jaaxx]

IMHO the best way to determine what you are after is with cigs per day.

20cigs per day * mg nic per cig = Total mg nic per day

Total mg nic per day / mL of liquid vaped per day = Desired liquid strength (in mg per mL.)


The trick is finding out how many mg of liquid you like to vape before you accidentally up your tolerance. You could start with really low nic liquid and then run the numbers.

On the other hand, you could start with your Total nic per day. Then, based on the liquid you have on hand, limit your intake.

Total mg nic per day / strength of liquid (mg per mL) = Max mL to vape per day.

I don't trust the "puffs" per this or that idea at all. Just adds to the inaccuracy of an already inexact equation.

[Al Bundy]

IMHO the best way to determine what you are after is with cigs per day.

20cigs per day * mg nic per cig = Total mg nic per day

Total mg nic per day / mL of liquid vaped per day = Desired liquid strength (in mg per mL.)


The trick is finding out how many mg of liquid you like to vape before you accidentally up your tolerance. You could start with really low nic liquid and then run the numbers.

On the other hand, you could start with your Total nic per day. Then, based on the liquid you have on hand, limit your intake.

Total mg nic per day / strength of liquid (mg per mL) = Max mL to vape per day.

I don't trust the "puffs" per this or that idea at all. Just adds to the inaccuracy of an already inexact equation.

Here's my issue with your method.

Total mg nic per day / mL of liquid vaped per day = Desired liquid strength (in mg per mL.)

The density and amount of the ml completely changes the problem of equating the analogs to the juice.

For example I smoke about a pack a day, so that's 20cig/day*.7 mg /cig = 14 mg / day.

Using your second equation you have TWO unknowns and one equation making the problem insolvable, there's no way that will work with any math.

Total mg nic per day (known)/ mL of liquid vaped per day (unknown) = Desired liquid strength (unknown)

[Al Bundy]

Some people like a really strong smoke, or there wouldn't be such a thing as Pall Mall or Lucky Strike.

I, however, purchase the 36mg strength as a cost-saving measure. The bottles of e-liquid cost the same no matter the strength, at least with every vendor I've looked at.

I buy the strong stuff then cut it down with Glycerine. Some folks buy PG. If I cut it in half, then my liquid is 18mg, and I've spent maybe a dollar on a second bottle. PG costs about $22 per gallon. I bought a 16 oz bottle of gylerine for about $9.

That's a great idea for cutting the nicotine density down, but doesn't that also reduce the flavor? Or are you just mixing your own oils in unflavored 36 mg juice?

[Al Bundy]

I put some more thought into the puff issue and I'm fairly certain it's on the right track.

If a "puff" removes x distance from the cigarette, then you can take an equivalent number of cross-sectional slices of the cigarette. You can assume uniform nicotine density across the cigarette, or you could simply estimate the mean nicotine density from the cross-section densities. Either way, the total nicotine delivered by the cigarette equating the puffs or cross-sectional distances will still sum to the equivalent amount.

Absorption efficiency is still an issue that needs clarification.

[aldo]

Unfortunately ...( based on my experience) you can ad flavors …but cutting down the liquid with PG or VG it decreases significantly the (throat/chest hit)

[Jaaxx]

OK, a little confusing.

Let's see

For example I smoke about a pack a day, so that's 20cig/day*.7 mg /cig = 14 mg / day.

Assumption - You want to get 14mg (or less) a day of nic maximum.
Unknowns:
1. Amount you will actually vape per day.
2. Strength of liquid you need to use.

You can solve for one unknown, but not both. You have to pick one. "I will vape 2mL per day, what strength do I need" OR "I like 24mg liquid, what is the max mL per day I can vape."

In the first case:

14mg per day max (known) / 2ml per day (known/choice) = You want no more than 7mg liquid

In the second case:

14mg per day max (known) / 24mg liquid (known/choice) = You can vape up to .58 mL per day

Kind of confusing, there is no simple answer. And even using the above guidelines is shaky at best. We don't know the true absorption rate from vaping vs analogs just to name one uncertainty. The equation I use assumes 100% nic absorption for both analogs and vaping. In other words, it should help you keep at or below your analog consumption.

Jaaxx

[Walrus]

That's a great idea for cutting the nicotine density down, but doesn't that also reduce the flavor? Or are you just mixing your own oils in unflavored 36 mg juice?

I'm mixing my own. It would reduce the flavor.

[Walrus]

Unfortunately ...( based on my experience) you can ad flavors …but cutting down the liquid with PG or VG it decreases significantly the (throat/chest hit)

It does reduce the hit, but if you start with a good strong one (TW's 36mg kick like mule getting a suppository) that's not such a bad thing