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Thread: Advice on what to buy for newcomers

  1. #471
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    Quote Originally Posted by wv2win View Post
    So you inferring that Blu or SE are the best PV's on the market based on how many are sold, is simply laughable.
    Incorrect again. Never said such a thing.

  2. #472
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyVapΣ View Post
    Incorrect again. Never said such a thing.
    That is why I used the word "inferring". Your comments that Blu/SE/Njoy are the best sellers could easily lead a new person to that conclusion which does more harm than good in pointing a new user to better performing PV's.

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    Believe it or not, some people are perfectly happy with those products.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonnyVapΣ View Post
    Believe it or not, some people are perfectly happy with those products.
    I believe the majority are not and the rest have no comparison points to make an informed judgement. I personally have met 10 Blu or SE users who told me that they went back to smoking because those PV's didn't work and that vaping in general from this experience is just a scam. These are the people that are doomed to smoking because these devices are the only ones with a high profile. I guess I could have told them that there must be something wrong with them since so many people have bought those brands.

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    Oh well...

    This is a permanent argument about something very simple. Look:

    Day 1

    90% of beginners want something that is exactly like a cigarette. Anything else (like if it works well or not) is irrelevant - it just needs to look and feel like a cigarette. Non-tinkerers who are correctly advised go for a KR808, tinkerers are pointed toward a 510.

    9.75%* of beginners do some research, and realise they need to be flexible or they might waste money or not buy the best gear. They buy a mid-size model like an eGo, Kgo, Tornado, Riva, Hello. If they specifically ask for a low-hassle system above all else, they might get pointed toward an Elegant Easy.

    0.25% of beginners have done more research and figure they'll need something that lasts more than 2 months and has decent power, so they get an APV.

    0% of beginners know that the liquid they choose is probably more important than the hardware. The right liquid in the wrong ecig will work, after a fashion; the wrong liquid in the right ecig won't.

    * But 50% of the beginners who actually do any research in fact do so much, for so long, they tie themselves in knots and are paralysed. It actually has a name: paralysis by analysis.

    The best policy is: just buy one. There is a 92% chance you'll soon get another one, but the problem is that only you will be able to decide what you need - after you have some experience.


    Day 50

    After a few weeks, 50% of beginners who bought a mini-format e-cig have given up, for one reason or another. Maybe, with mentoring, most would have succeeded - but they had no one to get advice from. Their kit didn't work properly, or the pre-fill liquid was foul, or the atties were dud / tasted bad, and so on. Or they bought from a supplier who didn't tell them they needed 5 cartos as a minimum plus an atty or two for testing flavors, they thought one carto/atty was good for months. Or, they bought from a supplier who didn't suggest that heavy smokers might need 36mg strength liquid or the pain would be intense for some (anyone can dilute it easily, if required - but nobody can make it stronger). Some liquid is even sold with 18mg described as 'high' - so a percentage of new users are guaranteed to fail simply because they can't get enough nicotine.[1]

    Keep in mind that one firm who have a pharmaceutical-grade production facility and run clinical trials at a cost of hundreds of thousands of dollars have discovered that some beginners need 45mg strength in a mini ecig, and have not only introduced an ultra-high strength of 45mg to supply this verified and proven need (shown by three separate, independent clinical trials that demonstrated beginners with a mini and no advice got zero or very little nicotine), but will also quite likely get a pharmaceutical license for it soon. Beginners with a mini may need much higher strength liquid than is normally supplied; their equipment is low-performance, their technique is poor, and they just don't get enough nic.

    40% of the people who bought minis are sick to death of the battery life, being accosted by others for smoking indoors, and the general restrictions of a mini. Especially if they bought an auto. They now realise they need something that has a bigger battery and no red LED on the end. They buy a mid-size model like an eGo, Kgo etc.

    10% are happy with their mini and keep at it.


    Day 150

    Some are happy, some not but they keep going anyway; some gave up due to one reason or another; some get the bug and start buying shares in hardware manufacturers; some go all political; some like home brewing so they start into DIY mixing; one or two open an ecig business of some kind or other; some buy every flavor ever made; most buy more, bigger stuff; some retire their big APVs and revert to smaller eGo-size models; some seek the ultimate vaping machine, at any price, and their children go without food & clothing; and some relax and go with the flow. Whatever.

    All this has been said, and said well, somewhere in this thread. This is just a recap.


    All statistics were made up on the spot. Some are pretty close though.
    There's always 1% who don't fit anywhere.



    [1] Another common reason for low satisfaction is that kits are sold to beginners with the advice, "Use it exactly like a cigarette". This is the exact opposite of successful use - there are no similarities at all between a tobacco cigarette and an electronic cigarette, apart from the fact they go in your mouth.

    Every single usage factor is different:
    • You inhale very, very gently, in comparison
    • You inhale into the mouth first, hold, then into the lungs - not directly into the lungs
    • An inhale is 4 to 8 seconds, if using a mini e-cig and average liquid, compared to the 1 or 2 seconds with a tobacco cigarette
    • For best nicotine absorption it is necessary to exhale slowly through the nose
    • You will need to use it for two or three times as long as a cigarette - 12 minutes or so compared to 5 minutes for a tobacco cig, otherwise you just can't get enough nicotine
    • You need expert advice to get the best results - not applicable to a tobacco cigarette
    • Unless you have advice on what to buy, how to set it up, and how to use it - there is a demonstrated 69% chance of failure (1 clinical survey)

    . . .and so on, and so on - every single factor of use is different.

    With no specific advice on this, and no one to ask, it is remarkable that only half of newcomers fail. Look at the published clinical research on ecigarettes - all managed by people who didn't have a clue how to use them, and who assumed there was some sort of comparison with a standard cigarette. The research clearly shows, when that is how use is conducted, ecigarettes fail. They deliver either no nicotine or a minuscule amount - clearly shown by three independent clinical trials. Add to that the utter frustration some will experience due to equipment malfunctions and no access to expert advice.

    A correctly-working e-cigarette:
    • Produces large clouds of vapor - more than a tobacco cigarette, in fact
    • Tastes fabulous, and the flavor can be changed as needed, from Marbro tobacco to blueberry muffin to coconut ice
    • The battery lasts all day
    • The throat hit and vapor temperature can be adjusted to the precise value required
    • The nicotine strength is right on, and no withdrawal pangs are experienced by the average user (blood plasma nicotine level has been measured near the top of the range for smokers)
    • The nicotine content can be reduced in the evening, before bedtime
    • In general the user is highly satisfied, realising they have found a 'smoking' solution that is way better in every respect than their tobacco habit

    Do you think this applies to the equipment used by, or the general experience of, many (or indeed any) new users?

    The single thing they probably need most is a mentor.


    __________________________________________

    This thread has been done to death, there's no more to say about it, and as the material has been utterly exhausted the only thing left is to insult other posters.

    Thread closed.

    __________________________________________

    Simple choices:
    Best e-cigarette for a new user

    Tips & Tutes:
    Beginners e-cigarette tutorial


    ___________________________________________

    Links to personal accounts and advice for new vapers from ECF members

    http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...s-newbies.html





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    Last edited by rolygate; 03-04-2013 at 03:19 PM.

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