Just saw this

[drewterry]

I mean if the FDA has said they are safe then they must be safe.... right? That would mean they are safe enough to use. So why do we have to permission before we use them? I mean abuse issues aside either they are safe or they arent so which is it?

[leaford]

leaford, I believe you are right about Congress and/or the courts not allowing FDA oversight of tobacco. I still think it is hypocritical, however. It is especially hypocritical of Congress. Electronic Vaporizers are simply an "alternative" method of inhaling a mixture of substances just like cigarettes are a method of inhaling a mixture of substances, except the tobacco mixture happens to have 400+ cancer causing agents included that is not found in the "alternative". But lets (our government) continue to support/allow the cancer causing method but regulate at best or ban at worst, the better alternative. There has never been a better example of "hypocracy".

AH, I thought you meant it was hypocritical of the FDA in particular. I agree it is appears hypocritical if you view the government as one whole entity. But in this case, I see it more as a case of different entities with different agendas, which isn't hypocritical.

[leaford]

How do we define necessary though? I mean all drugs are plant based right? After a certain amount our body stops breaking down sugar and stores it in the form of fat. Too much sugar intake can cause diabetes high blood pressure migraine headaches and a whole slew of other adverse health problems. Our body actually gets all the sugar it needs from normal food. All plants contain sugar.

Too much sugar can cause harm. It is still a normal part of our metabolism, and thus not a drug. And we define necessary as that without which we will die, like food or oxygen. It's really very simple.

[wv2win]

Not much has to change, just repaint some racing cars with e-cigs logos.[/quote]

When are you guys going to step away from the term "electronic cigarette"!!! We will never be able to change perceptions using that term! When I explain the device to non-tobacco users, I call it what it is, an electronic vaporizer and make a comparison to vaporizers used in a bedroom when some has a cold. You supplers need to give this some thought!

[drewterry]

What is funny is that speed has been found to have beneficial properties so its regulated, opium has been found to have beneficial properties so its regulated, barbituates have been found to have beneficial properties so its regulated, ......... has been found to have beneficial properties so its regulated, nicotine has been found to have beneficial properties so now they are trying to regulate it but alcohol has no beneficial properties whatsoever and you can drink all of that you want to.

[drewterry]

Too much sugar can cause harm. It is still a normal part of our metabolism, and thus not a drug. And we define necessary as that without which we will die, like food or oxygen. It's really very simple.

PRINCETON, N.J. -- It's a common refrain: "I'm addicted to sugar." Now a study by Princeton University psychologists suggests that such urges really may be a form of addiction, sharing some of the physiological characteristics of drug dependence.
Although the term "sugar addiction" often appears in magazines and on television, scientists had not demonstrated that such a thing as sugar dependency really exists, said neuroscientist Bart Hoebel, who led the study. Hoebel and colleagues studied rats that were induced to binge on sugar and found that they exhibited telltale signs of withdrawal, including "the shakes" and changes in brain chemistry, when the effects of the sweets were blocked. These signs are similar to those produced by drug withdrawal.

[leaford]

Still not a drug. And once again, the key word is SIMILAR. Similar is not the same. Water and Hydrogen Peroxinde are similar.

[drewterry]

Well then maybe you can explain to me why ......... works so well has limited side effects that are not harmful at all and no withdrawl symptoms where as sugar causes all manner of deadly disease and has withdrawl symptoms that are identical to the withdrawl symptoms from drugs.

[Vince1]

The problem with ......... or any mind and mood altering drug is not so much the physical harm but rather the psychological effects it has in long term use. After a person uses a substance like this for several weeks their brain waves start to change and this causes the person to think, act and react in slightly different ways. The "new personality" created in this way often leads the person to make different choices then they would normally. With meth use people deprive their self of sleep and loose higher brain function. People don't function well after staying awake for long periods of time. After stopping use of ......... brain wave studies show that a persons chartings will return to previous readings after around 60 days, with meth use it can take up to 90 days or more before you begin to think and act exactly as you did before use.
I see people every day who come up with every excuse in the book to justify their drug use. The simple fact is that you don't need one. You make your choice to use because you want to get high and that's all. The sooner a person can admit that, the better off they are and they can stop hiding behind all those lame excuses. Rationalizations and justifications just allow a person to keep using and not have to face any guilt or shame about what they are doing.
I have had people tell me that "they" should be allowed to drink and drive because they drive better after a couple drinks. Can you imagine?
How would you feel if the pilot of the 747 you were on announced that this was his 16th straight flight and we will take off as soon as the co-pilot arrived with another 8-ball.

Vince.cadc (Certified Alcohol and Drug Abuse Counselor)

[Boomer]

Well then maybe you can explain to me why ......... works so well has limited side effects that are not harmful at all and no withdrawl symptoms where as sugar causes all manner of deadly disease and has withdrawl symptoms that are identical to the withdrawl symptoms from drugs.

I have no problem with anybody using ......... what so ever, it is a personal choice. Quite a few of my friends smoke it but i choose not to as i do not enjoy the feelings, yes i did try it during college but even then it gave me severe paranoia.

Yes i partly agree with you in the fact that natural ......... has mostly tempory side effects but cannot say the same about the GM stuff that is about now, some of these versions can cause quite severe psychosis with long term use. My biggest issue with ......... is not that though but the fact that certain friends of mine mentioning no names lol plan to do all of these things with me then after a joint all of these things never happen lol they just cannot be bothered and would rather sit indoors playing computer games and ordering a pizza

Cheers Lee.