Soaking and straining tobacco to remove nicotine, then smoking/eating that for WTA
I've been reading this forum for a month, pretty heavily.
<<I edited my posts to not include all of my life story, for purposes of some anonymity (sp) so I'm taking out a lot of stuff >>
2 days ago ordered ecig online from totally wicked, haven't gotten it yet.
But something has occurred to me: I don't think I'm addicted to nicotine anymore, but I DO need the WTA.
A month ago I decided to try to quit cigs. It was VERY hard... very... the last 2-3 weeks I've been down to 1-3 american spirit cigs a day... for awhile it was half to 1 cig a day...but then lately started creeping back up... frustrating...
But what I've come to realize, is that I need the WTA's (maoi or whatever)..
It treats a depression I have... I've had this depression since I was very young.
So my PLAN, is this: I'm going to go buy a bunch of american spirit organic loose-leaf tobacco...
I'm going to soak it in water for 24 hours. Then strain and dry. This will hopefully remove the nicotine I was addicted to before.
I will then try to just smoke this mixture to see what level I need to get my MAOI's or whatever... -OR- I'm going to experiment with eating it... in very small quantities.
I did a similar experiment awhile back... I tried toasting the tobacco in the oven... to seemingly remove the nicotine.. and I still have some of that... but I'm not "sure" if thats what I need. Maybe... but I really haven't used it that much. I think the toasting might have destroyed the WTA's somewhat... but hell maybe there is still something about the nicotine that combined with the WTA...again this experiment will hopefully figure that out.
I think the water soak will get rid of the nicotine more than toasting it...
Because I think it basically took me 1 REALLY hard week, and another HARD week....to get OVER the nicotine addiction!!! I basically SLEPT for an entire week straight. It REALLY sucked. I think it was part physical AND psychological. I was VERY addicted to the nicotine I think! And I REALLLLLY don't want to get back into that addiction!
Basically I don't want to get back to HAVING to smoke every half hour or hour JUST to get my nicotine...which... is okay, but its a stimulant I personally don't think I really need... and DEFINITELY something I don't want to get back addicted to. I think its definitely more addictive than caffeine... I think.
I guess I will find out exactly what it is I want with my experiment.
But I think this could be a very simple way for all of us to get our MAOI's that we want, or the WTA's... without being seemingly "addicted" to smoking... if you will... I mean, not having to CONSTANTLY smoke throughout the day because its the nicotine that is doing this to us?
I'm not sure if the effect I want will be apparent if I simply EAT the resulting denicotinized tobacco (in very small quantities), but I will find out. This could be an easy way around all the hassle of having to buy dissolvables, snuff, snus, all that. I'm really not interested in all that. I've tried snus before. Been there done that. The only thing that I'd be interested is in that supposedly new product that is going to hit the market, that denicotinized WTA supplement. But this hopefully will be the exact same thing, and hopefully cheaper?
I would rather just smoke 3-5 cigs of denicotinized tobacco and deal with possible cancer risk (if thats all it would take for me, i'm not sure how "much" i would smoke)... I would rather do that, then mess with everything else. And if eating works, then I can just do that... talk about EASY! No need to wait for any "developments".
The other thing i will be doing, is experimenting with adding Passionflower to the ecig no-nic juice once I get it, and see if that works. I really DO love smoking... but I've proven to myself since trying to quit, that I really don't NEED to smoke anymore... its just the depression/anxiety starts getting to me bad, and I'm NOT going down that road anymore.
But I wonder...how much I still miss the nicotine? I don't THINK I do..but maybe nicotine IS part of it... my experiments will find out. I expect to do this tomorrow and I'll post on my thread.
Anyone interested in this? Reply to this thread. Thanks.
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 12:16 PM.
Maybe you could just see a doctor and get on antidepressants.
Hey keyzgirl... been there, done that...years ago. Paxil worked for me...with lots of side effects. Plus when you withdraw from that it feels like electrical currents are zapping through your head and body... it seems tobacco has reversible MAOI's with no diet restriction... a simple cheap antidepressant that I've come to be used to and seems to work... That is... unless the nicotine has some part in it.
Actually years ago when I decided I was done with meds, is when I picked up smoking. I decided to do it as an experiment in college. I decided to smoke 3 a day for 6 months. I quit after that. Then picked it up and quit numerous times over the next few years until I just stuck with it.
For some reason I find it helps. It literally seems to just stop depression for me.
But yeah, I just don't want to go back to meds. I have to deal with doctor visits, insurance, lots of money, etc..
And yes, I have tried the other SSRI's... didn't work as well as Paxil though.
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 04:53 AM.
Well I have started the experiment!
I just walked to the store and bought 2 packs of loose-leaf Buglar tobacco. I am soaking them in a large bowl of water for 24 hours. That will hopefully de-nicotinize the tobacco while leaving all the other alkaloids present. Are the MAOI alkaloids in tobacco water soluble?
For now I am only going to allow myself to smoke the tobacco that I did bake in the oven at I believe, 325 for 10 minutes. I'm pretty sure it still has some nicotine. Although its probably very small as I can't really FEEL it. But I do know... one time I was experimenting with eating this baked tobacco... and one time I kept adding more and more of it to this rice and beans I was eating... needless to say it took awhile to digest that, and I almost OD'd. The effect hit me 5 hours later, lasted for 8 hours. My heart was racing non-stop.. at one point I thought I was going to die...pass out..etc... I almost went to the emergency room.
So was that a nicotine overdose? If it -WAS- the nicotine, then that means even if you bake it for only 10-15 minutes..well... I guess the nicotine doesn't come out all the way ha...
Either way, I do want to stay off the nicotine for now. I find that I'm overall calmer without the nicotine. Things are just more level... And I won't have to be constantly trying to keep my nicotine levels high by constantly smoking.
Hopefully...hopefully... smoking this denicotinized tobacco will allow me to self-medicate as much MAOI's and whatever magical properties are in tobacco... as much as I want. So that is what I'm allowing myself to do.
If I find myself getting really depressed/anxious/irritable/angry... at least after an initial detox/withdrawal period of getting off most of the nicotine... then I will have to suspect either that:
1) the maoi's are water soluble, and leach out when I'm doing the water extraction.
2) the maoi's work in CONCERT with the nicotine...
3) or nicotine itself is what is needed for my mood/mental state... at least to my liking.
I'm pretty sure though... its not the nicotine. We shall see.
And with that, I just twisted up some of this baked organic american spirit tobacco...with some fresh iced loose leaf organic earl grey tea I made... and I will see where this takes me.
To be cont...
Or, forgot to mention. If I do indeed find what I want in this denicotinized tobacco, I will experiment with eating it. If that works, great. Then I'll start growing my own tobacco and doing this, to avoid all the TSNA's...
At least until they come out with a WTA eliquid with or without the nicotine..haven't decided.
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 08:28 AM.
One thing I should add. When I smoke the cooked tobacco, I don't really -FEEL- the MAOI's...
I read that some people could feel the relaxation from a WTA e-liquid they made. Or the relaxation from snus or snuff... compared to just e-cigs in general with pure nicotine...
I don't know. It could be this particular batch of baked tobacco I have... I could have baked off everything and changed it all. It doesn't feel like much at all actually. I'm guessing its possible the MAOI's you don't get high off of... its just they build up slowly and over say, a week or two or three, you just feel way better? Kinda like how it takes some time when you take a traditional MAO drug like Parnate, for example. At least that is what I've seemed to read on the net. I don't know. I do know that when I have been really depressed recently and smoked regular cigs, it lifted me out of the depression... so.... it could be the nicotine... but also again, it could just be that I need to still test the water-extracted tobacco to see if indeed... the MAOI's do give an immediate effect.
Like I said, I need to test this batch of denicotinized tobacco from the 24 hour water extract, it might be a different effect. If its a relaxing effect... then I'll suspect that there might be something immediately relaxing... but still I might suspect that the MAOI effect actually doesn't take effect for weeks.
In other words...maybe -some- of the alkaloid, oils, terpenoids, flavonoids (sp) have that immediate relaxing effect... but that the MAOI effect does take longer to kick in.
This explains my own issues with depression while trying to quit... and would explain why other people who switched to e-cigs had issues with depression over time. Its all very complicated. Do maoi's kick in fast? I think its probably not so... and that when you feel more mellow/relaxed from a cig or WTA e-liquid... its because your getting something that is immediately relaxing... not necessarily some MAOI effect.
Because I did read on the net a study or studies that said that... basically they tested the MAOI effect (in so many words) and found that it took some time to take effect. Basically in long term smokers they had higher levels of it then in people who just started smoking for the experiment...
But I'm really interested in this because I want to feel better without the racyness/anxiety/fast-pacedness I tend to feel with nicotine... but this will all have to be determined as I experiment.. Now that my tolerance is low... its not that I necessarily feel anxiety from nicotine... but I do think that over time as I smoke more and more traditional cigs (and i would guess, ecigs) I would feel that effect... from the nicotine alone. That seems to be my past experience.
Also last night when I went out to a bar and drank.. I wasn't really smoking. But then I had like half of a cigarette, and for 10 minutes I felt more uptight... so I think nicotine does cause anxiety in some of us... I wouldn't have known this until a month ago when I basically broke my nicotine addiction...
I wonder if anyone can comment who has tried this, or knows what I'm after here... and could offer their insights!
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 08:43 AM.
You might want to just check out "Smokless tobacco" under the "Other alteratives to smoking" forum.
Snus is probably a lot more pleasant and a lot less harmful than these experiments.
Also I think stress/anxiety/depression/nicotine/maoi's.... its all very complicated.
It depends on your life. Your lifestyle. Your job...
Nicotine alone probably has a quick acting anti-depressant effect... which I have realized... especially when you smoke a bunch in a row... with some cups of coffee...
But another idea I have... is that nicotine itself could actually cause anxiety..over time... in some of us... and that could lead to an anxiety condition or even contribute to depression... from that anxiety...
So to be able to incorporate a non-nicotine tobacco extract...by vaping, smoking, orally...etc... its possible to get a even greater mood-modulating/upping effect...
But this again could take weeks or months to get going in the system... like a traditional MAOI drug. Depending on the person. We will see...
I have just read of people having a lot of success with traditional MAO type pharmaceutical drugs... if my experiments work...it might work better alone than cigarettes -with- nicotine. Or it might actually turn out its really not even enough to actually deal with normal life stresses... when you have lots on your plate... which I don't really have right now.
I will be getting my first e-cig shortly in the mail... I will probably experiment a tiny bit with it... but I want to test this MAOI/WTA(minus nicotine) stuff out first... before venturing back into the nicotine... as it was a B***C to get off of... one of the hardest things I've tried doing. But its also possible its just a b***h to get off cigs because you know they help you... but I still think its the nicotine that you became addicted to... not necessarily the MAOI and other alkaloids... kinda like how its very hard to get off of caffeine.
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 12:05 PM.
Hey DVap - read all your stuff. Awesome.
I don't like snus... I gave it a go a bunch of times... it was alright to me. I started experimenting with it 8 years ago I think.
I kinda like being off nicotine right now...It seems nicotine kinda always made me feel anxious.. like I had to be doing something. Always focused. Couldn't really ever relax... I would always have to be smoking a cigarette...or doing something... and then when the stimulation wore off I had to have another cigarette. I seem to notice this with smokers now. Without the cigs I'm calmer... I plan my energy better... My relationships are better in a way... as I can be more in the present. its just the depression has started drastically creeping in. It sucks...plain and simple. thats why I want to see what the other alkaloids have to offer. I'm not trying to be an anti towards nicotine at all... really.
If it turns out nicotine is also beneficial to me...than I'll use it. In ecig form... and add on other herbs/medications to help counterbalance any effects I don't like from it.
Anyways, if the water extraction/maoi stuff works out... its quite simple. go buy a bunch of the lowest tsna organic tobacco you can find, or grow your own... then just take out the nicotine... ? seems very simple to me... the question is what else leaches out in the simple water extraction that you possibly don't want leached out...
Either way Dvap, I'm in a better position than alot of people on this board to do this experiment, as it seems my addiction to nicotine is very low at this point, thank God. But truly thats probably speculation... as who knows -what- I was addicted to. Me thinks the nicotine. But addiction to me is a harsh word. I think you just get used to a certain lifestyle that nicotine offers you... and you get into that swing of it. But when I basically quit cigs I remember it was so bad the only thing I could do was sleep, and I slept ALOT. It was killer... I don't know how I made it really.
I think I've had 4 or 5 of these baked tobacco rollies as I've been writing all this
oh, as an edit: the idea occurred to me to do a water soak of snus portions...to remove nicotine... leaving behind other stuff... so i will probably try that.
Last edited by Timberwear; 08-05-2010 at 12:20 PM.
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