In retrospect - Thread of proving nicotine is addictive. - Page 3 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

jmcclimo2003 · 04-12-2009, 06:09 AM

So has anyone tried any natural MAOIs to see how they affect the vaping experience?

jmcclimo2003 · 04-12-2009, 06:22 AM

"80% of nicotine patch users start to smoke again". To conclude this study, the authors therefore explain why current smoking cessation therapies fail in a large number of cases. Candidate smoking cessation aids such as chewing-gums and patches are effective at the start of treatment, as long as the effects of MAO inhibitors persist. However, after several weeks of withdrawal, the absence of tobacco (and therefore MAO inhibitors), allows the return of natural protection. Nicotine alone is not sufficient as a replacement product.

For Jean Pol Tassin "These studies may help improve approaches to the treatment of nicotine dependence. They also question the efficacy of current tobacco replacement therapy and show why users of nicotine patches and chewing-gums start to smoke again after only a few weeks in more than 80% of cases. A new composition combining nicotine and products blocking the natural protection due to the 5-HT1A receptors would be a more effective tobacco substitute. This may be used in a new strategy in withdrawal therapy."

Smoking cessation: how effective are nicotine substitutes?

This may be why so many here still smoke a couple analogs a day while claiming vaping works the rest of the time.

Kitabz · 04-12-2009, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letzin Hale

There are countless reasons that can be listed for not quitting Nicotine, but there are no valid excuses. Of course it's your choice, it's a free world, but why then remain enslaved when we have the best solution ever invented?
Alan.

I'm happy for you that you've been able to get a the place you want to be, i.e., nicotine free. But, as you no doubt are aware, we are all different.

I'm less happy about your use of "no valid excuses" and "enslaved" in the above quote. Very loaded terms and, whilst arguably true, they remind me of the types of things said by crusading ex-smokers.

To my mind, taking nicotine in this form is no different to taking caffeine in coffee and I have no intentions of giving that up either.

Kate · 04-12-2009, 12:51 PM

I use nicotine for mental health reasons, it improves my mood and has a normalising effect with psychosis.

It's also said to be good for other conditions including ADD, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

High doses of nicotine may be harmful but more and more therapeutic uses are being found.

Denni · 04-12-2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

but there are no valid excuses. Of course it's your choice, it's a free world, but why then remain enslaved when we have the best solution ever invented?

As I said, not all smokers develop nicotine dependence. What works for some may not work for others.

I'm with Kitabz, re. those loaded terms. And as Kate pointed out, nicotine has some benefits, which is why many people with mental health conditions smoke. I wouldn't even want to consider my mood swings without it

runninlater · 04-13-2009, 04:04 PM

Wow, I'm just barely getting off analogs at this point. Being "enslaved" and having "no valid" excuse aren't even words in my addiction vocabulary yet!!

I am a nicotine addict. I suspect that nicotine is my brain's drug of choice. There's probably a reason for that - I don't know for sure.

But I'm not addicted to anything else. I can drink alchohol and yet I'm not an alchoholic. I have tried various "party" drugs in my youth and never became addicted to any of them.
I watch TV and I shop - but I'm not addicted to those either.
And yet the world is full of alchoholics, drug addicts and addicts of all sorts who aren't addicted to nicotine.

I have always believed that it's the individual who determines how addictive any substance is within their own bodies and minds. Nicotine is no different.
For me nicotine was highly addictive from the time I started smoking 34 years ago.

One step at a time. I will be glad to wean myself from the "engineered" freebase form of nicotine found in cigs.

Chevron07 · 04-13-2009, 04:16 PM

Hmm...So I'm back on the nic. I never craved the nic like I did an analog, but I did find myself getting very lazy. I never realized how much smoking was part of my life. When I went outside to smoke, I would take out the trash. When I was thinking about just going to bed, I'd have to have a smoke first, which would wake me up and I'd get stuff done.

Once I went to zero nic, the juice tasted like crap and felt non-existent in my lungs, so I just put the e-cig down altogether. Then I stopped doing stuff. I stopped taking out the trash. I went to bed as soon as the kids were in bed.

Now I'm back to the good tasting nic filled juice and whatever. If I can find some good no nic juice all will be well, until then...at least I'm not getting cancer.

WerkIt · 04-14-2009, 12:06 AM

I AM a nicotine addict. Even when I smoked analogs for 28.5 years I refused to lie to myself by saying 'I smoke to relax." I smoked because I was addicted. However, that's not to say I will never quit nicotine. Having broken the smoking addiction with a combination of snus and e-smoking, with the snus definitely surpassing the e-smoking at this point, (today is day 5), I may one day well quit nicotine. If I do, I will be curious to see if it really was as addictive as I believe it to be.

On the other hand, I may well never quit nicotine and if not, I am totally happy with that too. It's actually the combo of nicotine and caffeine that gets my mind right. I must say I DO love it.

Vocalek · 05-19-2009, 07:33 PM

You know something? For an “addictive” drug, nicotine sure has some strange properties. Most drugs that increase dopamine levels in the brain make it difficult for the user to function. The users become—well, dopey! They get so wrapped up in the pleasure experience that they are a danger behind the wheel of a car, cannot perform well on the job, and put themselves into vulnerable situations where they can be taken advantage of. I’m thinking now of drugs such as alcohol, ecstasy, and opiates.

But that is NOT the behavior we see on the part of smokers (and vapers) who are not concurrently taking these other types of drugs. Instead we see them becoming alert and attentive, better able to concentrate, and thus more productive. For people suffering from stress, anxiety, panic, or depression, nicotine provides symptom relief. There is an interesting study done about 15 years ago with hospitalized patients being treated with anti-depressant medication. Some were only able to overcome their symptoms when allowed to smoke! One patient told her doctor, “If you let me smoke, I’ll stop trying to kill myself.”

“Uppers” such as cocaine and amphetamines often trigger anger and aggression. In contrast, many people become irritable and aggressive when they STOP using nicotine.

Health Authorities are so worried that e-cigarettes can attract children. They had the same worries about making nicotine replacement treatment (NRT) products such as gum, patches, and lozenges available over-the-counter, and those worries proved unfounded. They worried that NRT would serve as a gateway to smoking. Instead, these products proved to be the gateway away from smoking. Making these products widely available increased the numbers of persons who were able to quit, as well as reducing health risks for those who were able to significantly reduce the number of cigarettes smoked per day.

Thousands of electronic cigarette users have reported that despite the fact that the devices are NOT being marketed as smoking-cessation products, they get sufficient levels of nicotine from them to be able to quit smoking “analogs”. They are reporting relief from wheezing and coughing. They feel healthier, and they are healthier.

There is a Web site created by University of Alberta professors that contains comprehensive information, written in layman’s terms. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

I strongly agree with their statement, “It is sad and frustrating that some people are so obsessed with ending addiction to nicotine, rather than reducing the heath impact of using nicotine, that they tell all tobacco users that they must quit entirely, and if they do not quit, they might as well smoke and die from it.”

harmony gardens · 05-20-2009, 12:23 AM

Great thread!

When I was in my quit smoking classes,,, our materials made a big deal about how the tobacco companies added other things to cigarettes to increase the addictive qualities of cigarettes, and to manipulate the way they burned, etc. The trump card seemed to be that they contained arsenic. I asked our group leader the obvious question,,, why wouldn't they do something to force the tobacco company's to take those added chemicals out of the product??? She didn't have an answer of course.

04-13-2009, 04:16 PM	#27
Chevron07 Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 65	Hmm...So I'm back on the nic. I never craved the nic like I did an analog, but I did find myself getting very lazy. I never realized how much smoking was part of my life. When I went outside to smoke, I would take out the trash. When I was thinking about just going to bed, I'd have to have a smoke first, which would wake me up and I'd get stuff done. Once I went to zero nic, the juice tasted like crap and felt non-existent in my lungs, so I just put the e-cig down altogether. Then I stopped doing stuff. I stopped taking out the trash. I went to bed as soon as the kids were in bed. Now I'm back to the good tasting nic filled juice and whatever. If I can find some good no nic juice all will be well, until then...at least I'm not getting cancer. __________________

05-19-2009, 07:33 PM	#29
Vocalek Super Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Springfield, VA Posts: 609	Mighty strange properties for an "addictive" substance You know something? For an “addictive” drug, nicotine sure has some strange properties. Most drugs that increase dopamine levels in the brain make it difficult for the user to function. The users become—well, dopey! They get so wrapped up in the pleasure experience that they are a danger behind the wheel of a car, cannot perform well on the job, and put themselves into vulnerable situations where they can be taken advantage of. I’m thinking now of drugs such as alcohol, ecstasy, and opiates. But that is NOT the behavior we see on the part of smokers (and vapers) who are not concurrently taking these other types of drugs. Instead we see them becoming alert and attentive, better able to concentrate, and thus more productive. For people suffering from stress, anxiety, panic, or depression, nicotine provides symptom relief. There is an interesting study done about 15 years ago with hospitalized patients being treated with anti-depressant medication. Some were only able to overcome their symptoms when allowed to smoke! One patient told her doctor, “If you let me smoke, I’ll stop trying to kill myself.” “Uppers” such as cocaine and amphetamines often trigger anger and aggression. In contrast, many people become irritable and aggressive when they STOP using nicotine. Health Authorities are so worried that e-cigarettes can attract children. They had the same worries about making nicotine replacement treatment (NRT) products such as gum, patches, and lozenges available over-the-counter, and those worries proved unfounded. They worried that NRT would serve as a gateway to smoking. Instead, these products proved to be the gateway away from smoking. Making these products widely available increased the numbers of persons who were able to quit, as well as reducing health risks for those who were able to significantly reduce the number of cigarettes smoked per day. Thousands of electronic cigarette users have reported that despite the fact that the devices are NOT being marketed as smoking-cessation products, they get sufficient levels of nicotine from them to be able to quit smoking “analogs”. They are reporting relief from wheezing and coughing. They feel healthier, and they are healthier. There is a Web site created by University of Alberta professors that contains comprehensive information, written in layman’s terms. (tobaccoharmreduction.org) I strongly agree with their statement, “It is sad and frustrating that some people are so obsessed with ending addiction to nicotine, rather than reducing the heath impact of using nicotine, that they tell all tobacco users that they must quit entirely, and if they do not quit, they might as well smoke and die from it.”

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-12-2009, 06:09 AM	#21
jmcclimo2003 Full Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southwest Michigan, USA Posts: 20	So has anyone tried any natural MAOIs to see how they affect the vaping experience?

04-12-2009, 06:22 AM	#22
jmcclimo2003 Full Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Southwest Michigan, USA Posts: 20	"80% of nicotine patch users start to smoke again". To conclude this study, the authors therefore explain why current smoking cessation therapies fail in a large number of cases. Candidate smoking cessation aids such as chewing-gums and patches are effective at the start of treatment, as long as the effects of MAO inhibitors persist. However, after several weeks of withdrawal, the absence of tobacco (and therefore MAO inhibitors), allows the return of natural protection. Nicotine alone is not sufficient as a replacement product. For Jean Pol Tassin "These studies may help improve approaches to the treatment of nicotine dependence. They also question the efficacy of current tobacco replacement therapy and show why users of nicotine patches and chewing-gums start to smoke again after only a few weeks in more than 80% of cases. A new composition combining nicotine and products blocking the natural protection due to the 5-HT1A receptors would be a more effective tobacco substitute. This may be used in a new strategy in withdrawal therapy." Smoking cessation: how effective are nicotine substitutes? This may be why so many here still smoke a couple analogs a day while claiming vaping works the rest of the time.

04-12-2009, 12:51 PM	#24
Kate Moved On Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: UK Posts: 7,355	I use nicotine for mental health reasons, it improves my mood and has a normalising effect with psychosis. It's also said to be good for other conditions including ADD, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease. High doses of nicotine may be harmful but more and more therapeutic uses are being found.

04-13-2009, 04:04 PM	#26
runninlater Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: USA ~ Colorado Posts: 51 Blog Entries: 1	Wow, I'm just barely getting off analogs at this point. Being "enslaved" and having "no valid" excuse aren't even words in my addiction vocabulary yet!! I am a nicotine addict. I suspect that nicotine is my brain's drug of choice. There's probably a reason for that - I don't know for sure. But I'm not addicted to anything else. I can drink alchohol and yet I'm not an alchoholic. I have tried various "party" drugs in my youth and never became addicted to any of them. I watch TV and I shop - but I'm not addicted to those either. And yet the world is full of alchoholics, drug addicts and addicts of all sorts who aren't addicted to nicotine. I have always believed that it's the individual who determines how addictive any substance is within their own bodies and minds. Nicotine is no different. For me nicotine was highly addictive from the time I started smoking 34 years ago. One step at a time. I will be glad to wean myself from the "engineered" freebase form of nicotine found in cigs.

04-14-2009, 12:06 AM	#28
WerkIt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 225	I AM a nicotine addict. Even when I smoked analogs for 28.5 years I refused to lie to myself by saying 'I smoke to relax." I smoked because I was addicted. However, that's not to say I will never quit nicotine. Having broken the smoking addiction with a combination of snus and e-smoking, with the snus definitely surpassing the e-smoking at this point, (today is day 5), I may one day well quit nicotine. If I do, I will be curious to see if it really was as addictive as I believe it to be. On the other hand, I may well never quit nicotine and if not, I am totally happy with that too. It's actually the combo of nicotine and caffeine that gets my mind right. I must say I DO love it.

05-20-2009, 12:23 AM	#30
harmony gardens Super Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 571 Blog Entries: 2	Great thread! When I was in my quit smoking classes,,, our materials made a big deal about how the tobacco companies added other things to cigarettes to increase the addictive qualities of cigarettes, and to manipulate the way they burned, etc. The trump card seemed to be that they contained arsenic. I asked our group leader the obvious question,,, why wouldn't they do something to force the tobacco company's to take those added chemicals out of the product??? She didn't have an answer of course.