In retrospect - Thread of proving nicotine is addictive. - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Chevron07 · 04-09-2009, 04:30 PM

Quote:

2002 - Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids

"The FDA decision is important because it recognizes nicotine as a powerful drug that needs to be regulated," said Matthew Myers of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, co-author of a petition filed with FDA against the products.

FDA Shuts Off Nicotine Water Spigot - CBS News

What makes nicotine a drug anymore than baking soda or sugar a drug? I've always assumed that it was the addictiveness of nicotine that made it so bad/powerful, but now that I've started to question the addictiveness of nicotine, I haven't been able to find any organization that outright calls it addictive. They use euphemisms, and then the reporter throws in the word addictive. Or they mention nicotine, and then talk about tobacco addiction.

I was addicted to Marlboro cigarettes, and struggled with my addiction even while getting nicotine via an electronic cigarette. I had some rage issues the first week after exclusively smoking electronic cigarettes that I attributed to generic stress, but in retrospect I now believe they were due to Marlboro cigarette withdraw.

The FDA wants the manufactures of electronic cigarettes to prove that they are safe because they can deliver nicotine...What I want to know is: Has the FDA ever proved that nicotine is any different than anything else we put in our bodies?

rejoice · 04-09-2009, 04:54 PM

If you have not read this thread, its talks about this.
Vaping is not a complete substitute for tobacco smoking

rejoice · 04-09-2009, 05:16 PM

Many on the forum that has been vaping for a while.say they can stop vaping and are fine. One on this forum the other day. Did just this.
He did a test and stop vaping for a day and was just fine. It was said, I can take it or leave it.

This really makes me wonder. Is nicotine really as addicted as they say?
I think nic is addicted,but there are other things in the analogs that are more so.

Chevron07 · 04-09-2009, 05:23 PM

Thanks, great thread. So how do all of these groups get away with saying nicotine is a powerful drug? I really wonder if it's one of the least powerful parts of a cigarette.

rejoice · 04-09-2009, 06:01 PM

I think the tobacco companies,doesn't want anyone to know.

There maybe a dirty litttle secret here. Analogs have more than nic that is addicting.
Us people that vap are finding this out. Nicotine patch user's wouldn't know this. They think is the hand to mouth thing. Gum user's the same. Vapor user's know better than this.

katink · 04-09-2009, 06:18 PM

I only vape, no tobacco at all for more then a year; and I can't get below 11 mg. Worked my way down from 18 to 11; but there the train just stops (at least has stopped for months now). So for me nicotine-addiction is real. But I know it isn't for all... some can indeed take it or leave it, no trouble. Lucky them.

rejoice · 04-09-2009, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katink

I only vape, no tobacco at all for more then a year; and I can't get below 11 mg. Worked my way down from 18 to 11; but there the train just stops (at least has stopped for months now). So for me nicotine-addiction is real. But I know it isn't for all... some can indeed take it or leave it, no trouble. Lucky them.

I agree that nicotine is addicted. I only think that is not the whole addiction picture of analogs. There are other things in analogs that are also addicting. There are stuff in analogs that keeps us from getting depressed. There is much more than nicotine that is addicting in analogs.

katink · 04-10-2009, 11:36 AM

Oh, do agree to that Rejoice

(though I think it's nicotine that works for depression? - but anyhow there certainly is more in analogs that 'do things', agree).
It's just that you can't make the assessment, from the fact of that being the case, that nicotine 'therefore isn't addicitive'. I don't know enough of why it isn't addictive to some and it is to most, though it seems to have to do with changes made (or not, or not so severely) in the brain - but that it's addicitive, also in itself, for most is beyond doubt (for me).

Denni · 04-10-2009, 12:33 PM

For sure we're all different. Personally I know that I'm addicted to nicotine, but I'm hoping to taper it off by vaping (like Katink I won't get down to zero, still at 18 mg, but I'm vaping much less now than I did at the beginning)

The smell of the analogues is what's hooked me. If I haven't been vaping for a while and smell cigarette smoke I instantly desire one.

Nicotine has real effects on the brain, but saying that not every smoker becomes dependent on it. They reckon it's only about 20% after 1 month of regular smoking. The figures given in the intro is that 23% of adults in the US are smokers and 13% are nicotine dependent which is more than half of smokers, but by no means all:
Pharmacotherapy and Pharmacogenetics of Nicotine Dependence -- Berrettini and Lerman 162 (8): 1441 -- Am J Psychiatry

The level of smoking also varies heavily between individuals with many medium-light smokers and others who need to puff on the equivalent of 3+ packs a day. Horses for courses, but nicotine is definitely an addictive drug, and for those who develop dependency it is very hard (and sometimes impossible) to quit.

Chevron07 · 04-10-2009, 02:48 PM

I'm sorry, I think that I've haven't been clear on my words.

I think that almost anything can be addictive [shopping/plastic surgery/caffeine/alcohol(don't blame the alcohol by calling it an addictive drug, blame the person by calling them an alcoholic)/chocolate/tv], but what I'm asking is: Is nicotine really such a powerful and addictive drug on it's own that anti-nicotine advocates make it out to be? Have there been any studies with all of the proper controls and placebos just on nicotine and not related to cigarettes.

I guess I just keep thinking the whole "what if the kids think e-cigs are cool and get addicted to nicotine" argument. Shouldn't they have to prove that someone would be much more likely to get addicted to an e-cig with nic than a placebo e-cig without nic to call it a powerful drug and make the "for the kids" argument?

I guess it sucks that nicotine has such a grasp on you (maybe not, because I'm starting to doubt that it's even that damaging), but at least you found a safe way to manage the addiction!

...Katink, Just out of curiosity, have you tried a blind test to go below 11mg's? Give some 8mg liquid to a loved one and have them swap it out on you at a random time or something?

04-09-2009, 05:23 PM	#4
Chevron07 Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 65	Thanks, great thread. So how do all of these groups get away with saying nicotine is a powerful drug? I really wonder if it's one of the least powerful parts of a cigarette. __________________

04-10-2009, 02:48 PM	#10
Chevron07 Full Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 65	I'm sorry, I think that I've haven't been clear on my words. I think that almost anything can be addictive [shopping/plastic surgery/caffeine/alcohol(don't blame the alcohol by calling it an addictive drug, blame the person by calling them an alcoholic)/chocolate/tv], but what I'm asking is: Is nicotine really such a powerful and addictive drug on it's own that anti-nicotine advocates make it out to be? Have there been any studies with all of the proper controls and placebos just on nicotine and not related to cigarettes. I guess I just keep thinking the whole "what if the kids think e-cigs are cool and get addicted to nicotine" argument. Shouldn't they have to prove that someone would be much more likely to get addicted to an e-cig with nic than a placebo e-cig without nic to call it a powerful drug and make the "for the kids" argument? I guess it sucks that nicotine has such a grasp on you (maybe not, because I'm starting to doubt that it's even that damaging), but at least you found a safe way to manage the addiction! ...Katink, Just out of curiosity, have you tried a blind test to go below 11mg's? Give some 8mg liquid to a loved one and have them swap it out on you at a random time or something? __________________ Last edited by Chevron07; 04-10-2009 at 02:59 PM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-09-2009, 04:54 PM	#2
rejoice Supporting Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA KY Posts: 1,476	If you have not read this thread, its talks about this. Vaping is not a complete substitute for tobacco smoking

04-09-2009, 05:16 PM	#3
rejoice Supporting Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA KY Posts: 1,476	Many on the forum that has been vaping for a while.say they can stop vaping and are fine. One on this forum the other day. Did just this. He did a test and stop vaping for a day and was just fine. It was said, I can take it or leave it. This really makes me wonder. Is nicotine really as addicted as they say? I think nic is addicted,but there are other things in the analogs that are more so.

04-09-2009, 06:01 PM	#5
rejoice Supporting Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: USA KY Posts: 1,476	I think the tobacco companies,doesn't want anyone to know. There maybe a dirty litttle secret here. Analogs have more than nic that is addicting. Us people that vap are finding this out. Nicotine patch user's wouldn't know this. They think is the hand to mouth thing. Gum user's the same. Vapor user's know better than this.

04-09-2009, 06:18 PM	#6
katink ECF Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 1,235 Tweet this post!	I only vape, no tobacco at all for more then a year; and I can't get below 11 mg. Worked my way down from 18 to 11; but there the train just stops (at least has stopped for months now). So for me nicotine-addiction is real. But I know it isn't for all... some can indeed take it or leave it, no trouble. Lucky them.

04-10-2009, 11:36 AM	#8
katink ECF Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 1,235 Tweet this post!	Oh, do agree to that Rejoice (though I think it's nicotine that works for depression? - but anyhow there certainly is more in analogs that 'do things', agree). It's just that you can't make the assessment, from the fact of that being the case, that nicotine 'therefore isn't addicitive'. I don't know enough of why it isn't addictive to some and it is to most, though it seems to have to do with changes made (or not, or not so severely) in the brain - but that it's addicitive, also in itself, for most is beyond doubt (for me).

04-10-2009, 12:33 PM	#9
Denni ECF Veteran Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 383	For sure we're all different. Personally I know that I'm addicted to nicotine, but I'm hoping to taper it off by vaping (like Katink I won't get down to zero, still at 18 mg, but I'm vaping much less now than I did at the beginning) The smell of the analogues is what's hooked me. If I haven't been vaping for a while and smell cigarette smoke I instantly desire one. Nicotine has real effects on the brain, but saying that not every smoker becomes dependent on it. They reckon it's only about 20% after 1 month of regular smoking. The figures given in the intro is that 23% of adults in the US are smokers and 13% are nicotine dependent which is more than half of smokers, but by no means all: Pharmacotherapy and Pharmacogenetics of Nicotine Dependence -- Berrettini and Lerman 162 (8): 1441 -- Am J Psychiatry The level of smoking also varies heavily between individuals with many medium-light smokers and others who need to puff on the equivalent of 3+ packs a day. Horses for courses, but nicotine is definitely an addictive drug, and for those who develop dependency it is very hard (and sometimes impossible) to quit.