The Link Between Anger and Nicotine Use

[LaceyUnderall]

Ok. So, I went on a hunt for nicotine awhile back... raw nicotine. I ran across several companies like this one Alchem International Manufacturer & Exporter of Nicotine USP

After reading how the nicotine was extracted for pharmaceutical grade nicotine, I about ***** my pants. Pharmaceutical nicotine is some chemically derived stuff! This comes down to the "guilt by association" philosophy that the only reason why nicotine is demonized is because the carrier (tobacco cigarette) is such a demon. Which it truly is. Even the patches are not "organic" nicotine. So the testing done thus far on nicotine is all pharmaceutical grade stuff.

Truly the only way you could do a test on nicotine would be to extract it as naturally as possible without chemical intervention and then add it to a vegetable base and then do testing.

Wow. Our ecigs could become VERY organic in delivery of nicotine. (sure the nicotine might not have such a strong power, but isn't that a concession some would be willing to make?)

[Kitabz]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

After reading how the nicotine was extracted for pharmaceutical grade nicotine, I about ***** my pants. Pharmaceutical nicotine is some chemically derived stuff! [...] Even the patches are not "organic" nicotine. So the testing done thus far on nicotine is all pharmaceutical grade stuff.

If we accept that nicotine is a chemical (which it is - C₁₀H₁₄N₂), what difference does it make how it was obtained - assuming the resulting chemical is free of contaminants?

You may prefer "organic" tobacco leaf to be the origin of the nicotine or less industrial processes to be used to get it out of the tobacco leaf, but in the end, it will yield exactly the same chemical surely.

[LaceyUnderall]

Originally Posted by Kitabz

If we accept that nicotine is a chemical (which it is - C₁₀H₁₄N₂), what difference does it make how it was obtained - assuming the resulting chemical is free of contaminants?

You may prefer "organic" tobacco leaf to be the origin of the nicotine or less industrial processes to be used to get it out of the tobacco leaf, but in the end, it will yield exactly the same chemical surely.

But how can you be truly sure that the testing done on nicotine is truly yielding the results of the nicotine and not another chemical used in the extraction process?

Are my assumptions wrong that nicotine extracted by chemical means could possibly have a residue from one of those chemicals, not making it pure nicotine anymore?

I am not a scientist by any means... so I am truly curious.

[Kitabz]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

But how can you be truly sure that the testing done on nicotine is truly yielding the results of the nicotine and not another chemical used in the extraction process?

No, this is a valid point (and why I said "assuming the resulting chemical is free of contaminants"). I would presume (and I stress that I don't know) that pharmaceutical grade nicotine is likely to be >99% pure. The question is what is in the residual <1%?

For it to be pharmaceutical grade, I think it unlikely for it to be anything remotely toxic. Coupled with this, since we consume nicotine in such hugely diluted quantities, we'd be taking about less than 1% of less than 0.36% using the maximum 36mg/ml strength generally available. In the case of the NRT nasal spray at 10mg/ml this would mean less than 1% of less than 0.1% - in other words 0.001% of the total volume (that's one in one hundred thousand).

Are my assumptions wrong that nicotine extracted by chemical means could possibly have a residue from one of those chemicals, not making it pure nicotine anymore?
I am not a scientist by any means... so I am truly curious.

I have more faith in well understood chemical reactions taking place under rigorously controlled conditions than I do about extracting nicotine using - how shall I say - less controlled methods where the end product cannot be pure (or even consistent in some cases) and the percent of nicotine it contains cannot be known. I'd be more afraid of consuming nicotine several times stronger than intended than any tiny quantity of chemical that might be left over from the industrial extraction process.

[gashin]

There are several ways to test for purity using NMR, and Gas chromatography.... I'm sure the research studies use these methods because most labs have them. In fact, I attended UCI where that study was carried out and there are several of those machines on campus, even open to the undergraduates!

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

But how can you be truly sure that the testing done on nicotine is truly yielding the results of the nicotine and not another chemical used in the extraction process?

Are my assumptions wrong that nicotine extracted by chemical means could possibly have a residue from one of those chemicals, not making it pure nicotine anymore?

I am not a scientist by any means... so I am truly curious.

[LaceyUnderall]

kitabz/gashin -

thanks for the science lesson

all of this comes from wanting to understand a: the downfalls of people being forced to make this stuff in their kitchens... which concerns me greatly and b: finding a better way to extract AND keep consistency in mg's as kitabz touched on...

we were thinking of a fun experiment, basically taking tobacco and putting it into a no-nicotine base and then measuring the nicotine in it every day for x amount of time. brewing it kind of like you would whiskey.

since we consume nicotine in such hugely diluted quantities, we'd be taking about less than 1% of less than 0.36% using the maximum 36mg/ml strength generally available. In the case of the NRT nasal spray at 10mg/ml this would mean less than 1% of less than 0.1% - in other words 0.001% of the total volume (that's one in one hundred thousand).

this was one of the issues with homeopathic. even though it is still a completely viable option, there would be even greater dilution of the nicotine as the HPCUS requires at least 3x I believe to be OTC. for me, a now no-nicotine/low nicotine at parties eSmoker... no big deal... but for others like my hubby who could probably be at 36mg easy... that wouldn't work.

[Idahojo]

Well from my personal experience, I don't think it's the nicotine or lack thereof that makes a person edgy or angry. I think it's the other cr@p Big Tobacco puts in it to keep us coming back for more. When I was smoking 2-3 packs a day I would get downright p!ssy when I had to wait for a smoke. Then I got downright aggravated and then some. Now after stopping the analogs I can go for several hours between vaping and not have that experience. Yes I really want to vape but I no longer have homicial thoughts. LOL Just my unscientific conclusion.

[LaceyUnderall]

Originally Posted by Idahojo

Well from my personal experience, I don't think it's the nicotine or lack thereof that makes a person edgy or angry. I think it's the other cr@p Big Tobacco puts in it to keep us coming back for more. When I was smoking 2-3 packs a day I would get downright p!ssy when I had to wait for a smoke. Then I got downright aggravated and then some. Now after stopping the analogs I can go for several hours between vaping and not have that experience. Yes I really want to vape but I no longer have homicial thoughts. LOL Just my unscientific conclusion.

I agree completely. It's an amazing feeling. You own your smoking now, it doesn't own you.

[Kitabz]

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

kitabz/gashin - thanks for the science lesson

No problem!

we were thinking of a fun experiment, basically taking tobacco and putting it into a no-nicotine base and then measuring the nicotine in it every day for x amount of time. brewing it kind of like you would whiskey.

For doing stuff like this in your own kitchen for your own use, the risk is limited. For commercial quantities, that's a different matter. One mistake and you've got hundreds/thousands of lives in your hands. Scary stuff.

this was one of the issues with homeopathic. even though it is still a completely viable option, there would be even greater dilution of the nicotine as the HPCUS requires at least 3x I believe to be OTC. for me, a now no-nicotine/low nicotine at parties eSmoker... no big deal... but for others like my hubby who could probably be at 36mg easy... that wouldn't work.

Don't even get me started on homeopathy. Going from 36mg to about 1/4000 of the strength isn't really going to do it for most people!

Originally Posted by Idahojo

Now after stopping the analogs I can go for several hours between vaping and not have that experience. Yes I really want to vape but I no longer have homicial thoughts. LOL Just my unscientific conclusion.

Originally Posted by LaceyUnderall

I agree completely. It's an amazing feeling. You own your smoking now, it doesn't own you.

Yes, I find this too. The [nicotine] addiction is still there but it's much less intense than it used to be with cigarettes. I feel quite liberated now-a-days. It's like I've been let out of jail but I'm still on parole!

[LaceyUnderall]

Originally Posted by Kitabz

For doing stuff like this in your own kitchen for your own use, the risk is limited. For commercial quantities, that's a different matter. One mistake and you've got hundreds/thousands of lives in your hands. Scary stuff.

I should also clarify here that we were talking as in fun for us to do...not to do in our kitchen and sell to the masses (I know you weren't suggesting we would... but I just feel I need to clarify for all of those reading along)