e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Go Back   e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat > Health and Medical Issues > Nicotine
Connect with Facebook
Register Blogs FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Notices

Nicotine The molecule that binds us all! All posts relating to addiction and the effects of nicotine on the body and mind go here

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2009, 12:12 AM   #101
Super Member
 
happily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ut
Posts: 1,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmasu View Post
actually, most questions are, "are you a tobacco user?" On insurance and health forms.
Also, if you lie for insurance purposes and die or get sick and it is related to your use of tobacco the insurance company will do anything in its power to not pay your claim.
nicotine is not tobacco product ...........and for tropical bob you would fail a nicotine test but that does not make you a smoker. Someone who chews is not a smoker.
__________________
The sledge hammer: JOYE 510 THE WRECKING BALL VP2 http://www.vaprlife.com/index.html
happily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 12:50 AM   #102
ECF Veteran
 
TropicalBob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA
Posts: 5,076
Default

Absolutely. The criteria now is not "smoking", but nicotine use. We e-smokers are no better in the view of insurance companies than a chain-smoker of cigarettes.
TropicalBob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 12:51 AM   #103
Full Member
 
Minimike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 142
Default

So, no more tomatoes?
__________________


Minimike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 12:53 AM   #104
Super Member
 
happily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ut
Posts: 1,964
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicalBob View Post
Absolutely. The criteria now is not "smoking", but nicotine use. We e-smokers are no better in the view of insurance companies than a chain-smoker of cigarettes.
This is true and Insurance companies will soon start asking your bathing habits
__________________
The sledge hammer: JOYE 510 THE WRECKING BALL VP2 http://www.vaprlife.com/index.html
happily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2009, 06:22 AM   #105
Senior Member
 
webtaxman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 184
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom09 View Post
Thanks for the update, JoAnna! Another very interesting result. Just when I thought that one has to vape intensively xx-high to max-out the test... So, this was achieved with medium-high liquid vaping? Could you add some estimate on your mileage? May not have been the same amount of cotinine (the proxy for delivered nicotine) from vaping and analogs, since highest test level is anything above the cutoff (> 1000 ng/ml). But certainly appears to be effective vaping.

Seems there can be much variation for different individuals. Just compare some graph, randomly picked from a scientific study, showing smoking habit and cotinine in urine concentrations [ng/ml] of 128 test subjects. Graph for illustration, not meant to be authoritative, here. While there is a dose dependence for the average, not everyone is the average, as reflected by the large error bars. Damn, I really thought this would turn out to be simple!

Source: Ziegler et al. (2004): Clinical Correlation between the Consumption of Nicotine and Cotinine Concentrations etc., Pharmacology 72:254–259.

I’m by no means an expert in biology or medicine. I just find the question of actual nicotine delivery from vaping personally interesting and highly important. And while we keep speculating, I‘d certainly prefer to read some professional expert’s informed opinion... But looking from my laymen’s perspective, I think that all results from the home tests (as gratefully posted by Minimike, Kate51, JoAnna1010) are (1.) internally consistent and (2.) do support the prevailing notion from user experiences and the first reports of the Laugesen/Ruyan-team, suggesting that vaping is significantly less effective for nicotine delivery than analog smoking.

It has to be noted that the Nymox home test appears to come with a relatively low cutoff (equivalent to 1000 ng/ml cotinine in urine, according to the simplistic product flyers). Most moderate smokers of 10-19 cigarettes per day would score the highest level, score above the 1000 ng/ml cutoff (see the illustrating graph above). Moreover, reading from this illustrating graph, even some occasional to light smokers would score above this cutoff. Just don’t bash JoAnna for her personal body functions, individually different for every one .
Nevertheless, a value of 200-500 ng/ml reported from someone (Kate51) who - by all means - reported constantly vaping 24 mg strength (and so I’d guess runs > 2 ml/day) IS a bench. There is not much chance that a one-pack-a-day smoker would return such a low cotinine level. But certainly, more testing and professional, better informed opinions are needed.
Very interesting stuff. Add me to the list of potential test candidates. Can't promise that, but I hope to. It seems there were two manufacturers of 2 different tests, or did I misunderstand? Any ways, we should all be taking the same test, and same sample (urine or saliva) and that just may be-not sure.

The margin of error in the graph presented seems quite revealing at least to this uneducated vaper. 1-9 cigarettes gives a cutoff at the 50% level. You smoke 9 cigs you'll be at the high range. You smoke 1 or 2 you'll be at the low range. 5 cigs, or average, is the mean in the bars on the graph--at the 50% --1/2 level. Same for 10-19.

Any ways, I'm in! I agree though, we will need many more "volunteers."
__________________
I'm working on my signature -- Relax already
webtaxman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2009, 11:30 PM   #106
Super Member
 
happily's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: ut
Posts: 1,964
Default

Ok I am going to the doc for blood work on Monday.......While I'm in there they might as well test my nicotine levels too. What tests should I ask for and should I vape right up til the test or not vape when I wake up. I'll go first thing in the a.m.

is testing blood the best way to go?
__________________
The sledge hammer: JOYE 510 THE WRECKING BALL VP2 http://www.vaprlife.com/index.html
happily is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2009, 09:06 PM   #107
Supporting Member
 
Kate51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Argyle Wi USA
Posts: 1,935
Default

WooHoo!! I got a #3 level showing a bar!!! More to come later, gotta get to work now.

Quote:
Adding Photos NicAlert Saliva Test Strip + Close-up
July 29,2009 This is a Cotinine Measurement in Saliva
Level #3 represents 100 - 200 ng/ml Cotinine in Saliva
This is from Vapor only, NO ANALOGS
Juice Nicotine Level: 18mg/ml in VG
Quote:
Refer to Post #76 in this Thread, that test urine done on July 03,2009
Was level #4 200 -500 ng/ml Cotinine in Urine Using 24mg/ml Juice Only, no analogs
Will check for any discrepancy between the two types of test, but believe as of now there is no discrepancy, Real Cotinine levels are the same in both tests
Closeup NicAlert Test July 29 2009.jpg

NicAlert Test July 29 2009.jpg
Needless to say, I am a happy lady today!!
__________________


Smokers have more choices than just quitting or dying

Last edited by Kate51; 07-30-2009 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Add photo add post#76
Kate51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 01:34 AM   #108
Supporting Member
 
Kate51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Argyle Wi USA
Posts: 1,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by happily View Post
Ok I am going to the doc for blood work on Monday.......While I'm in there they might as well test my nicotine levels too. What tests should I ask for and should I vape right up til the test or not vape when I wake up. I'll go first thing in the a.m.

is testing blood the best way to go?
I hope you will let us know what you find out from your doc.
The Nymox tests do not call for any cessation.
Early morning or late night not indicated as preferable.
Yours would depend on your doc's testing. I was disappointed to hear at our hospital that they do only positive/negative, not quantity of Cotinine in blood unless it is requested, must be scheduled 2-3 mos out. Ridiculously cavalier, I think. No test kits available at all in Pharmacy. So I felt kind of lonely asking for test kits, was forced to wait for mailorder.
Let us know what you find out, good luck!
__________________


Smokers have more choices than just quitting or dying
Kate51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 02:29 AM   #109
Senior Member
 
bearscreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 299
Default

That's great! Basically, you're saying that your test results from urine and saliva are the same level, and your nicotine level is approximately 1/10 compared to what it probably was from smoking. When are you gonna smoke and test?
bearscreek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2009, 03:31 AM   #110
Supporting Member
 
Kate51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Argyle Wi USA
Posts: 1,935
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearscreek View Post
That's great! Basically, you're saying that your test results from urine and saliva are the same level, and your nicotine level is approximately 1/10 compared to what it probably was from smoking. When are you gonna smoke and test?
No way!!
I'll get whatever data I need from published tests, I would not do that to myself ever again. My first test told me that I was already absorbing only about 1/10th of the nicotine without all those other components of cigarettes, my second test shows that I could indeed cut back from 24mg/ml juice to 18mg/ml, and if I live the rest of my life doing this level of nicotine that would be fine with me. Who knows, in a couple months I may try another cutback. I made the decision based on my comfort level. This level was also a piece of cake, not even a ripple of being "denied" anything, the non-smoking decision was made by the PV itself. I was totally comfortable doing that. I am Stoked!! Just think, not quite five months ago my Cotinine level would have been around 4000 OR MORE ng/ml. Now I am handling 200 ng/ml very well. That would be even less a span (1/2 that) than the Ruyan Tests. What an amazing thing. Yes, I wish I had known about these tests then, but would have just maxed them out, I still would have had to rely on established reports, as I am now. I love my Janty Stick!! If I could give it up today, I would, and then I'd have to frame it with a photo of myself looking healthy for the first time in 44 years. Yah, except for being 44 1/2 years older!
__________________


Smokers have more choices than just quitting or dying

Last edited by Kate51; 07-30-2009 at 03:39 AM.
Kate51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
  • Submit Thread to del.icio.us del.icio.us
  • Submit Thread to StumbleUpon StumbleUpon
  • Submit Thread to Google Google

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC8
© ECF 2007 to 2009 ψ Ω

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184