Nicotine Myth Busted - Nicotine does not cause adiction IMO - Page 2
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Thread: Nicotine Myth Busted - Nicotine does not cause adiction IMO

  1. #11
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    That was an impassioned OP, but with not a single cite or reference, I don't find it persuasive at all. (Except the part about BT manipulating nic levels in cigarettes to make them more addictive, which is certainly true.) John Phoenix, you make a whole lot of claims and definitive statements in your post - do you have reputable cites for each one of them? You say you "sited" scientists, but you didn't. A cite is a link or reference to a peer-reviewed study, paper or analysis that proves, or at least indicates, that the writer isn't pulling facts out of thin air, or making them up.

    Pure nicotine isn't a benign substance. It's so toxic to mammals that its use as an insecticide has been banned in several countries, including the USA. ml for ml, it is more toxic than ........ It's a very potent poison and affects most systems of the body. One of my 30 ml juice bottles, were I to drink it, may well kill me. It's a very potent chemical - and interestingly enough, although toxic, also has some beneficial phamacological uses. (Each of the preceding statements is cited in the link below.)

    I did a little googling around and the easiest link I have for a cite is wikipedia - which might not always be 100% accurate but always has a long list of cites at the bottom of each article so readers can reference and follow links and learn more.
    Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Now, do I believe vaping is less harmful than smoking? HECK yes! My own purely anecdotal (and thus scientifically invalid LOL) experience tells me this alone - I am breathing better, smelling better, and not coughing at all now! I'm not drawing smoke laden with burning nicotine plus countless added chemicals into my body several hundred times per day. I LOVE vaping. But I'm not fooling myself that it's 100% benign...drawing anything but clean air into one's lungs probably isn't optimal, health-wise.

    BTW - for 37 years, I've hand-rolled my cigarettes using imported European/Turkish shag tobacco blends, which to the best of my knowledge contain few if any additives. I think a little VG to keep them moist in some brands - I smoked mostly Bali Shag or Drum. No filters, and I use French cigarette papers, which have no saltpeter added (this keeps tailor-made cigarettes burning; RYO smokes frequently go out because the papers aren't impregnated with stuff....I think that changed recently when the FDA made manufacturers of tailor-mades add something to make them go out to be less of a fire hazard) so in terms of smoking, I was a pretty "clean" smoker. All my non-smoking friends over the years have told me I didn't really smell like a smoker; I think because of what I smoked. But on a 1-10 scale of addictedness, I was (am) about a 20.

    tl;dr: Vaping is fantastic and almost certainly much less harmful than smoking. But nicotine is not a benign substance.
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  2. #12
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    Good job on the OP but there are several half-truths used to support your argument.Mainly that nicotine isnt all that addictive or even harmful.I happen to agree with you about the 20000 other chemicals found in cigarettes in respect to their addictive qualities and harmful effects but it undermines your argument when you say that nicotine isnt addictive.Ounce for ounce its more addictive than morphine or .......Its so dangerous thats its measured in milligrams, less than a half a gram of nicotine is enough to kill a horse.
    Last edited by zapped; 05-04-2012 at 11:30 AM.

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    Well for me it's not the nicotine, I used to need a smoke after a meeting/or during a break etc. Now when we have a break during a meeting or the meeting is done ... I am like, shall I vape or not. I do not need it anymore. I used to light an analog the split second after I started my car ... Now I perhaps vape like when I am already driving 5 minutes

    I do not need it anymore ... I use the nicotine to get the throat hit. Because 0mg, I am missing the throat hit, but currently with my DIY using 8/9mg or so. If I can find anything that would give me the same throat hit without the nicotine, i'll use that

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    I have to say that its the nicotine for me and the routine of smoking/vaping...But they have to be together because the patch or gum would not cut it either, I tried the blu and there was not enough to satisfy, I tried the original ego and the foam burnt taste was gross, but when the ego t came out and i could get a constant 24mg vape with flavor and TH..I never went back to analogs..
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    Quote Originally Posted by cricque View Post
    Well for me it's not the nicotine, I used to need a smoke after a meeting/or during a break etc. Now when we have a break during a meeting or the meeting is done ... I am like, shall I vape or not. I do not need it anymore. I used to light an analog the split second after I started my car ... Now I perhaps vape like when I am already driving 5 minutes

    I do not need it anymore ... I use the nicotine to get the throat hit. Because 0mg, I am missing the throat hit, but currently with my DIY using 8/9mg or so. If I can find anything that would give me the same throat hit without the nicotine, i'll use that
    Your comment about the throat-hit is the most interesting to me. I am embarking on a project to assist an EU University with cognitive trials, particularly using a zero-nicotine liquid that gives a throat-hit, to further research into the efficacy of electronic cigarettes in harm reduction. I have done informal blind tests and found that most users are satisfied if they get the throat-hit, irrespective of nicotine content. Being able to do this as part of a structured, scientific trial should provide more valuable information. I'll keep you informed of how the trials progress.

    Best wishes

    John
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bodrell View Post


    BTW - for 37 years, I've hand-rolled my cigarettes using imported European/Turkish shag tobacco blends, which to the best of my knowledge contain few if any additives. I think a little VG to keep them moist in some brands - I smoked mostly Bali Shag or Drum. No filters, and I use French cigarette papers, which have no saltpeter added (this keeps tailor-made cigarettes burning; RYO smokes frequently go out because the papers aren't impregnated with stuff....I think that changed recently when the FDA made manufacturers of tailor-mades add something to make them go out to be less of a fire hazard) so in terms of smoking, I was a pretty "clean" smoker. All my non-smoking friends over the years have told me I didn't really smell like a smoker; I think because of what I smoked. But on a 1-10 scale of addictedness, I was (am) about a 20.

    tl;dr: Vaping is fantastic and almost certainly much less harmful than smoking. But nicotine is not a benign substance.
    I smoked the same type of RYO as you and can say without a doubt it is every bit as addictive as more processed Camels or Marlboros. I now use snus as my main source of nicotine and can say without a doubt that it is certainly addictive. The only difference between the two is that smokeless tobacco hits slower then smoking, which took me a few months to adjust to.

    It is a common myth that tobacco companies are manipulating cigarettes to be more addictive. This was started by the ANTZ and is little more then propaganda with little to no facts to back it up. Tobacco is addictive and needs little to no help from tobacco companies to make it more so. Many vapors, including the OP have found it convenient to play along with the myth of big bad tobacco companies manipulating cigarettes to make them more addictive. It's bogus.

    Tobacco companies manipulate cigarettes, not to make them more addictive, as it really doesn't need any help with that, but for flavor and consistency. Smoking a cigarette gives an almost instant hit of nicotine to the brain. There is little that BT could do to improve on it. Some percentage of people who vape have found it possible to cut down on nicotine, but others have not cut down and find it is not reasonable to do so. Others like me have found that the straight nicotine in e-liquid to be very unsatisfying and needed to go to snus and WTA to get off of cigarettes.

    Peoples reaction to tobacco/nicotine is very individual with a lot of variance. You cannot use your own situation and draw large conclusions. It simple doesn't hold up.
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    In my opinion, both nicotine and caffeine are addictive. People don't often notice their addiction to caffeine because it's not taken like nicotine, typically. Some people take caffeine pills, and they would feel the addiction much more than coffee or soda/tea. Being digested by drinking it gives a slower spike of stimulation and destimulation. Smoking gives a rapid stimulation and thus creating a rapid destimulation, so the urge to get that level of stimulation is higher. For example, ......... (not condoning it or anything): people who smoke ......... get high faster, and the high doesn't last as long as if you were to eat the edible form of the drug. I only used ......... as an example because it's much more noticeable than the "buzz" from nicotine.

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    the ammonia gets the nic in your system very fast,nic causes a mild euphoric condition,,hence the desire\addiction for nic
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    I did not read all the posts just the OP. I went from 2+PAD to exclusive vaping overnight, with little to no withdrawls. It took chain vaping 24 mg to get r done. Now when I tried to lower my nic intake I started to have some serious withdrawls. I lowered it too much too fast. I am now down to mostly 0nic with some 6+8 every now and then. Point is I had a lot more trouble lowering strait nic vs switching altogether. Case study, test subject kwalka.........

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    Very interesting thread, but like a few of the other comments, I think the OP has been a little to liberal in their use of TinFoil!

    Nicotine is addictive. Its proved by the way vaping has been so successful in changing people over from cigarettes. If we were all so convinced that we were happy to just puff out water vapour, there wouldn't be a quiting industry!

    Caffeine is addictive - its why I get headaches if I haven't had enough coffee - and the same is true for loads of other natural products. We just notice nicotine because its taxed!

    One point about the dangerous things put into tobacco is that it isn't all done on purpose. For instance, the Polonium210 that get highlighted by many anti smoking types actually comes from the fertilizer used to grow the tobacco. They don't use it in Turkey, hence the reason Turkish tobacco is seen as purer!

    Anyway - thought I would add my 2 units of currency!
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