Nicotine and your heart

[Frankie]

For very personal reasons I have been contacting local doctors asking about alternatively delivered nicotine and its possible implications for heart conditions. Unfortunately, those I managed to contact were just repeating risks of smoking, completely ignoring the smokeless factor. Our local (post- or not so post-)commie doctors just love the cold turkey sooo much... I resorted to online search then and found the following. It seems to be a reputable, well founded article and put me at ease, so maybe some other newbie with cardiovascular concerns can peruse it, too.

Nicotine is not a significant risk factor for cardiovascular events. The benefit of nicotine replacement therapy outweighs the risks of nicotine medication, even in smokers with cardiovascular disease.

treatobacco - Nicotine is not a significant risk factor for card

[mEtoke2]

Here's an interesting article on nicotine.

Nicotine and addiction. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)

[SuperStack]

Originally Posted by Frankie

"and the nicotine dose-cardiovascular response curve demonstrates a plateau effect, that protects against increased cardiac effects with increased nicotine dose"

That's an interesting tidbit of info. A linear effect using fierce 36mg juice would likely make it unusable for pretty much everyone, which explains why users are able to vape it without having heart attacks.

[yvilla]

Thanks Frankie, good article you found! I have also been trying to find good information on nicotine and its impact on cardiovascular issues, and it is really difficult to find articles or research specifically on the effects of nicotine all by itself, as opposed to the effects of nicotine as found in smoking. I did find some info, but your article references a number of studies.

Although I did not keep the links, I do remember also being reassured by information in a few scientific articles that the carbon monoxide from smoking appears to be a far greater culprit in arterial damage than nicotine alone.

[TropicalBob]

I, too, want to hear that nicotine is not a cardio or circulatory problem. But this study was clearly produced for Big Pharmaceutical. Read it with that in mind. It's all about NRT, which e-smoking is not. It's all about those small amounts the FDA allows in NRT products, not super bad 36mg liquid that some here use.

And it really doesn't say nicotine is safe. This we know: nicotine boosts heart rate and blood pressure, demolishes a good cholesterol ratio and constricts arteries. That's good?

[rustylug]

I agree with T/Bob on the bit about 36mg liquid .....In the uk a whole pack of 20 Embassy Regal has 22mg of nic .... A Normall high strenth cart has 18mg of nic.....If you can get by on 18mg then DONT DONT go up to super high 36mg.... No real cig has 36mg so ask your self why you would need it now !!!!

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

I, too, want to hear that nicotine is not a cardio or circulatory problem. But this study was clearly produced for Big Pharmaceutical. Read it with that in mind. It's all about NRT, which e-smoking is not. It's all about those small amounts the FDA allows in NRT products, not super bad 36mg liquid that some here use.

And it really doesn't say nicotine is safe. This we know: nicotine boosts heart rate and blood pressure, demolishes a good cholesterol ratio and constricts arteries. That's good?

[Schroedinger's cat]

I agree. Honestly, anything above 18 mg scares the hell out of me (I usually vape 11 mg). I do not even want to know what havoc that much nicotine could wreak in my body -the idea of it is enough to make my knees go weak.

As has been said before in this forum, however, a little nicotine is good for the brain, even it is probably bad for something else.

[BadSeed]

18mg is definitely the max I'm going to ever use. I think in the new year I'll try to cut down to lower nic levels and see how I get on.

[Frankie]

I understand you, TB, are a veteran e-cig researcher, but I would like to oppose nevertheless. Wishful thinking dies hard

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

I, too, want to hear that nicotine is not a cardio or circulatory problem. But this study was clearly produced for Big Pharmaceutical. Read it with that in mind. It's all about NRT, which e-smoking is not. It's all about those small amounts the FDA allows in NRT products, not super bad 36mg liquid that some here use.

Exactly. Big Pharma nicotine inhaler has a single dose of 10 mg, recommended daily use 6-10 doses. 4 mg lozenge can be used every hour or two. That is much more than I personally use in e-smoking. As far as the 36 ml liquid is concerned, it´s up to its users. Some like a glass of wine after dinner, others prefer a bottle of vodka. I had to dilute 18 mg, because it was way too strong for me - but 36 mg users might be young and/or healthy... In other words, I am interested in implications for moderate use.

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

And it really doesn't say nicotine is safe. This we know: nicotine boosts heart rate and blood pressure, demolishes a good cholesterol ratio and constricts arteries. That's good?

Do we? That is exactly what I was trying to find real answer for. Because I have a nagging feeling that this damage is mostly due to smoke, not nicotine itself. Are there relevant sources about cardiovascular risks of non-smoke nic? I wish there weren´t, but if you know of any, please post links.

My personal heart rate went down appx. 10 beats in average (OK, only ten days off the smoke, but I have been measuring this and BP daily for quite a time and never had less than 80 (usually well over 90) and now I I can even occasionally score late seventies, which was a goal my doctor wanted to use dangerous beta blockers for. I also tend not to have *much* increased beat rate immediately after vaping. Cigarette used to get me somewhere around 110/minute, vaping up into 90-ies, but not always.

I also found a several day´s tendency to have somewhat higher systolic and lower diastolic BP, so instead of e.g. 130/90 I score more to the levels of 140/80(ish). Medication stayed the same, only bad habits changed. Will have to ask doc what (if anything) that implies.

[TropicalBob]

I'll repeat this: I want to believe nicotine is not causing harm to the heart and circulatory system. Want to. I search for favorable articles to support that hope. But I try to scan real science, flawed though it often is. Try sciencedaily.com. Just search for "nicotine" and prepare to spend hours reading.

But as has been noted in other posts, until recently the research was focused on the health effects of smoking, not nicotine. Nicotine is only one of about 4,000 chemicals in tobacco smoke. To understand nicotine's singular impact, it has to be tested in isolation. That was rarely done. No money in that research.

Now that anti-smoking has morphed into anti-tobacco, which is morphing into anti-nicotine, we should get more studies on nicotine alone. I'm sure we'll find that it has benefits and undesirable consequences, too. Does one outweigh the other? For me, I'm a nic addict, so I fear I'll keep on keeping on with e-smoking. But it would be nice to find the optimal dose to satisfy addiction without destroying health. That's the answer I'm searching for in the new research.

BTW: Those mg does for Big Pharma products really don't tell the story. None of them are strong enough for a pack-a-day cigarette smoker. That's why their success rate in a mere 5%. They all absorb or dissolve over an extended period of time, with differing efficiency rates. None equal the kick of a single cigarette, smoked in 7 minutes. None are as potent as high-nic e-liquid vaporized in one of our devices (unless the NRT products are abused; but the nic limits on them are for HEALTH and SAFETY, too, so what are we doing????).