So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[ladybug]

Dvap, your posts are terrific. I've followed you in the other threads. Chemistry aside for a moment, the only bottom line for me is blood nicotine level and per puff nicotine delivery.

When e-smoking can move my blood nicotine level to what I had as a former 30-a-day cigarette smoker .. whoopee. Until then, I'm nicotine deprived as an e-smoker and get what I need from snus, nasal snuff, and disssolvables used at the same time as I vape 36mg liquid.

Hey Tbob! I am the same way! I use everything,snus and dissolvables and can vape at the same time! It keeps me sane,and I use very high nic juice,no problem for me and it is keeping me off ciggs! So,I think DVap is on the right track,as I have been trying to follow his threads also,but get a little confused sometimes about what he is saying. I do find the chemist very interesting though!

[ladybug]

i think some of us are.. i dont think they are always "illness" issues.. as i have said elsewhere.. my eldest son has suffered all his adult life from severe underlying issues.. like chronic schizophrenia.. he is basically okay but needs chemicals to remain so..

a few days ago i said these exact words to his psychiaterist.. the lunatic sits staring at the wall.. he is happy.. do we leave him there... he made no attempt to answer..

lots of mental health suffers are heavy smokers.. the mind doctors are only too aware that smoking is a self applied part of the drug therapy those under their care end up having to take..

as for me.. i need it (nicotine) simply to tolerate the rest of the world which i consider not entirely sane... he he he

trog

I love my nicotene! And the rest of the world is insane

[DVap]

Hey Tbob! I am the same way! I use everything,snus and dissolvables and can vape at the same time! It keeps me sane,and I use very high nic juice,no problem for me and it is keeping me off ciggs! So,I think DVap is on the right track,as I have been trying to follow his threads also,but get a little confused sometimes about what he is saying. I do find the chemist very interesting though!

Yea, I get a little confused too sometimes about what I'm saying.

[Stubby]

Quadrant 1: Low nicotine predisposition, low MAOI presdispostion.
Quadrant 2: Low nicotine predisposition, high MAOI predisposition.
Quadrant 3: High nicotine predisposition, high MAIO predisposition.
Quadrant 4: High nicotine predisposition, low MAOI predisposition.

Accepting that each person smokes more or less for nicotine and more or less for MAOI's, how might individuals in each quadrant stop smoking tobacco in a most appropriate and satisfactory manner?

Individuals in quadrant 1 might be expected to do well vaping a low to moderate strength e-liquid as an alternate to smoking.

Individuals in quadrant 4 might be expected to do well will vaping a higher strength e-liquid as an alternate to smoking.

Individuals in quadrant 2 might be expected to have a fair deal of trouble with vaping alone as an alternate to smoking. These individuals might find satisfaction with a low to moderate strength e-liquid supplemented by snus.

Individuals in quadrant 3 might be expected to find vaping wholly unsatisfactory as an alternate to smoking. These individuals might find satisfaction with a higher strength e-liquid supplemented by snus.

It should be noted that since snus contains both nicotine and tobacco MAOI's, some individuals may find that they prefer snus to vaping, and quit vaping or smoking entirely. There appears to be a fair deal of anecdotal evidence for this in the snus community.

Now that's starting to fit. Goes a long way towards explaining the different reactions we're getting with e-cigs. I fit in with the last paragraph.

This could go a long ways towards getting people off the cigs and on to reduced harm products. A bit more pragmatic then the one size fits all, but it may just work.

[LameBMX]

Great concept DVap! I was not aware of MAOI's in tobacco. I had referred previously to tobacco have something addictive more than nicotine, due to my craving a hit when drunk. Even though I know that hit will taste like trash.

[Agent309]

This has been a very interesting thread to read, and has given me a little bit of insight into my newly acquired vaping habits. When using my e-cig, I'm always getting some minute part of the liquid directly on my lips, and I feel the nicotine fuzziness I used to experience when I would chew the gum. When using the stronger 36mg juice, I notice this a lot, and I like it A LOT. When I use some of the flavored juices, that come in the 24mg strengths, I don't notice this effect nearly as much, and I vape them constantly. The 36mg does give me a better hit, and allows me to put down the e-cig for a bit (unless I am drinking alcohol, in which case I keep a battery charging constantly).

That being said, I also have an e-pipe (des601) and it's high strength cartridges are labeled 18Mg, and are somewhat maple flavored. I get an awesome enjoyment out of them, I get a good hit, and feel relaxed from using the pipe. I still don't want to put it down. When I refill it with the 36mg e-juice, I still get a nice hit, but it's not as relaxing as the 18 mg pipe juice. I know the pipe cartridges are coming from a difference source than the regular e juice, so I am under the opinion as others have said that all juice is not created equal.

[DVap]

Interesting to note:

Here's something from the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

You'll notice a myopic focus on nicotine. The M.D.'s and Ph.D's go on and on with not a hint of any other factor being considered, even tangentially, in tobacco addiction.

Do we know something they don't, or have they drunken too deeply of the kool-aid?

[frankie1]

I had a lengthy discussion with Kin earlier about MAOIs in tobacco. This is the thread:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...ess-maois.html

Certainly was interesting read! I think the MAOIs are my Achiles heel. I am having to rethink my strategy!

[Thumbscrew]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or if there's any validity to it - but are all 'analogues' more or less made with the same additives from one manufacturer to the next? (or even from brand to brand from the same manufacturer?)

If not;

- Is there any possibility that those having a harder time with nicotine replacements may be 'missing' other ingredients that other analogue smokers may have not come in contact with, or at different levels?

And while I don't know a darn thing about chemistry or how nicotine interacts with the body - is there any chance that any of these other ingredients may effect the speed at which nicotine is absorbed/dissipated in/from the bloodstream that may account for the differences in nic levels during blood tests?

My apologies if either question's been answered/tested, but as someone who's having a bit of a hard time with the transition this is an interesting thread

[DVap]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before or if there's any validity to it - but are all 'analogues' more or less made with the same additives from one manufacturer to the next? (or even from brand to brand from the same manufacturer?)

If not;

- Is there any possibility that those having a harder time with nicotine replacements may be 'missing' other ingredients that other analogue smokers may have not come in contact with, or at different levels?

And while I don't know a darn thing about chemistry or how nicotine interacts with the body - is there any chance that any of these other ingredients may effect the speed at which nicotine is absorbed/dissipated in/from the bloodstream that may account for the differences in nic levels during blood tests?

My apologies if either question's been answered/tested, but as someone who's having a bit of a hard time with the transition this is an interesting thread

I believe that MAOI's in tobacco come from the tobacco itself. Just as different tobacco varieties have more or less nicotine, it is reasonable to expect that different tobacco varieties also have more or less MAOI's. The nicotine content of tobacco is what gets all the attention, we know how much nicotine we get from an analog, it's tested and reported. Testing/reporting of tobacco MAOI's, on the other hand, is pretty much nonexistent.

Nicotine itself enters the blood via the mouth, respiratory tract, and lungs. I have trouble seeing how co-factors can modify the mechanics of absorption. Something that must be considered is that nicotine is quoted as having a half-life of 2 hours... but this is an average. Some individuals may metabolize it much faster or much slower. Now the hard part is what happens on the brain side of the blood/brain barrier... do MAOI's work to potentiate nicotine, or do they work independent of nicotine? Dunno.

If you're vaping 36 mg, and you're still going crazy, you've got an issue other than nicotine, and MAOI's are currently the prime suspect.