So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[kinabaloo]

TBob's a key member of CASAA, hence the prod.

People can disagree and still be on good terms. No antipathy involved!

It's not about understanding the chemistry, just that there are two things which together give a stronger effect. Much anecdotal evidence and scienctific study is in agreement on this.

One can't say 'nicotine is powerfully addictive - but it doesn't do much for me (I need the drug combo that is tobacco)'. That's my meaning.

Different perspectives, but we're all the same side.

[Eric in AK]

Sorry, I didn't read all 11 or so pages, but my question is: Do we know for certain that the form of nicotine delivered at the temperature of a PV is the same as that released by the burning of tobacco? I've assumed all along that most of the nic-content labeling is a bunch of hooey, because I've seen suppliers selling 36 mg nic liquid for the same price per ml as 18 mg or 12 mg. Why would they give you more per ml at the same price, only to see you cut the 36 with VG or PG and make twice the liquid?

Even more extreme example: one of my favorite suppliers sells Ecopure Rich flavor 30 mg, 5 ml for $5 and 10 mg, 5 ml for $5. Since this is VG based, why wouldn't I buy the 30 mg and cut it with 10 ml of VG to make 15 ml of 10 mg if that's the strength I prefer? Doesn't make sense. It would be like a gas station selling premium gas and regular unleaded for the same price.

My hunch is: the numbers just might be meaningless. If you're getting any nicotine, the concentration is a wild guess from one supplier to another.

[telsie]

I've assumed all along that most of the nic-content labeling is a bunch of hooey, because I've seen suppliers selling 36 mg nic liquid for the same price per ml as 18 mg or 12 mg. Why would they give you more per ml at the same price, only to see you cut the 36 with VG or PG and make twice the liquid?

I don't think that means anything. You don't pay more for Marlboro reds than Marlboro Ultra Lights.

[Eric in AK]

I don't think that means anything. You don't pay more for Marlboro reds than Marlboro Ultra Lights.

Maybe that's because I can't make three packs of ultra lights out of a pack of reds. I can make 15 ml of 10 mg e-liquid out of 5 ml of 30 mg e-liquid. They're selling nic content as much as they're selling flavor when it comes to e-liquid. Cutting the flavored liquids with VG doesn't make much of a difference in the flavor, in my limited experience. Then again, any flavors I'm vaping now are generally DIY, so I'm biased in that direction already.

[DVap]

My hunch is: the numbers just might be meaningless. If you're getting any nicotine, the concentration is a wild guess from one supplier to another.

I've received liquid samples from a good number of forum members and suppliers, and with the exceptions of the guy who got 6.2 mg when he paid for a bunch of 36 mg from some place I'd never heard of overseas, and the TW red label moderate inconsistencies (which they're raising absolute hell about with their supplier), the liquids have been remarkably accurately labeled.

For Chinese manufacturer, I've come to trust Dekang's labeling. TW Platinum Ice is absolutely right on it's 54 mg labeling. John (Shining Wit) from Intellicig had offered to send me some Ecopure Krystal , but so far I've not seen it, so I can't offer first hand test results, maybe he forgot, ohhh John.... but I suspect it is also as advertised. Domestically (U.S.), I can't say enough good things about Myfreedomsmokes. Nhaler and Midwest Vapor have also proven right on the mark.

[cordless]

I use about 3 ml day and mix up different flavors myself, Start with non flavored 24mg and mix 70% nic to 30% Vg for a perfect juice. Was a 2 day pack smoker now im fine without any analog cig. I dont smell anymore.. Very happy.

[Stubby]

Your experience with snus mirrors mine Vaporer. In the short time I've been using snus my liquid consumption is down by half easily. No longer chain vaping and by all appearances I'm getting the nic or MAOI's or whatever that I need.

I've been thinking about those of us who self-medicate with nicotine (and I certainly do... think ADD). I believe I would be in the moderate/low nicotine, high MOAI's bracket. While others are doing strong or extra strong snus in the morning I can do it with a mini, but when I'm at work and need to focus it's got to be the standard 8 mg nicotine snus. I think I often over-smoked, not for the nicotine but for the cofactors I was getting.

Little wonder e-cigs were such a failure for me. The last thing I needed was a purified nicotine.

You might want to try getting all you nic needs from snus (and perhaps nasal snuff, likely another good source of MOAI's) and using 0 nic liquid if you feel the need for the oral fixation thing. For some of us it may be a mistake playing around with the purified nicotine.

[Vaporer]

Stubby,

I wouldn't look at it s a mistake. Human physiology is different for each as well as what about analogs satisfied them. It appears to be no doubt that its more than nicotine. For some the nic is the major thing, others seems not so sure. If I don't toss in a mini snus I'll vape constantly , or it seems like it. If I put a mini in, It can be threre for 2 hrs and I'll only vape abt 1/2 my "norm". Putting a dissolvable stops the immedate urge to vape, but I still want something. So I vape. I guess I'm used to getting what I'm missing from the analog that way so I subconsciencly return to the PV.
So, it appears to be a balancing act for the individual. Some dont mind vaping all day constantly. I wondered why, as OlderThanDirt did, and we have similar results.
I'm guessing, since I cant prove it, that there is something in the raw tobacco that has this effect. Dissolvables have the nic and don't work for me the same way. snus, even in the mini portions has the raw tobacco still present even in the low nic snus. I have to discount Camel SNUS out, although it does help some, because its produced so differently than Discreet and Sweedish type snus's like General Mini Mint (white portion) which work well.

I hope this helps explain a little better and if you feel you failed with the PV , you may not have just found your " balancing point" as your system is more sensitive or your awareness higher than others.

DVaps testing proved the nic is there, but at the same time raised other questions and I see all this input form others as great sources to compare to as "why?".

Good luck. Every analog you don't smoke is a +.

Edit: Stubby, if the snus helped, have you considered vaping snus juice or tossing a snus in your bottle of eliquid? TB made a vid on using snus to vape as have a couple of others. That might be the ticket that solves your issues.......and mine too come to think of it.

[olderthandirt]

This thread as well as a couple others currently going got me to wondering more than I usually do 'bout this addiction/habit.

Yesterday, no snus until mid to late afternoon. Conscious effort to NOT chain vape. Result: slightly anxious and when I did go to the room where I had my PV's it was truly a fog-fest.

Grabbed up the snus in the early evening and any anxiousness, (anxiety?) subsided within perhaps 15 to 30 mins. Vaping the rest of the evening was occasional and relaxed.

So here's where I lose my train of thought as far as logical cause and effect goes. Today I started with snus, thought I'd for-swear the vape today. Made it about 2 hours before I HAD to take a draw.

So the balancing act you speak of Vaporer is certainly a real thing for me at the moment. As to the whys and wherefores, I'll continue to follow what Dvap, Kin and others put forth with fascination. And I'll darn sure continue to self medicate my depressive side with nicotine!

Hey Stubby, you do still vape along with the snus right? I lose things all the time, need reminders... The thought of dropping the nic level in my juice and supplementing with the snus has crossed my mind. That 36mg still feels sooo good though....

[Stubby]

To many threads within threads. I think I need some strong snus (LOL).

Vaporer, I agree with everything you said about each of us finding our balance. I hoped I hadn't made my suggestion about getting off the e-cig nic to harsh. I tried to qualify it with a "some of us". I have found my balance. Just using snus and a bit of nasal snuff and I'm good, and have been for nearly 6 months. No cigs or desire for cigs. Funny for me as my system rejected the e-cig type nicotine early on. It didn't take me long to figure out it wasn't working. I took to snus like a duck to water. I felt.. normal.

I made the suggestion because for those of us that are self-medicating, at least in my case, the co-factors in tobacco appear be as important as the nicotine. If I load up on the purified type nicotine via e-cig I get into trouble.

Olderthendirt: I stopped using the e-cig completely about 5 months ago. It wasn't giving me what I needed so it just kind of fell to the wayside. Wasn't even trying to do it. It just got to be to much hassle with the batteries, cleaning, etc. I did miss the hit I got with cigs for some time. For me I think it was the nicotine spike that cigs give ya. I got over it.

It may take some time to find your balance. Wether you need the nic in e-cigs or not in the long run, well... I guess time will tell.