So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[kinabaloo]

re DVap's blog: The gamma carboline is a likely candidate, yes. Besides MAOI effect boosting nic, might be some calming alkaloids too; didn't see any info in this regard on my googling as yet. But confirmed something I feared - many alkaloids are larger molecules than nic - gamma carboline for example has a bp appraoching 400C. Of course it will be in a mixture so may still be vaporised to a significant extent (hopefully similarly in extent to combusted tobacco.

Further to my last post, I have mentioned before how tea manages to comine stimulation and relaxation (theanine, and maybe others). I have 70mg liquid right next to me, but never been tempted to try it (I will though for the important experience); not because i think it's dangerous, just feel it will not work for me (though i need to try to be sure).

~~~

ps: Given the modes and focii of action of many alkaloids such as gamma carboline, wonder if there is a connection between the alt-alkoloid seekers and being 'night owls' ...

(there is a connection with melatonin)

[Vaporer]

Kin,

I was one of the ultra light smokers , but I drew for all it was worth and drew it deep.
If you ar eclose to your normal nic levels, I can see a little extra in the mough causing the hiccups. Odd reaction, but sure effective and noted. It usually comes with that knot/tightness in the back of the throat, so I'd say you are right on the convulsiveness type aspect.
Today went well.......less than 1/2 my normal vape. Used 4-5 snus and just left them in till whenever. Some were in a couple hrs. I'll roll them lightly with my teeth and pop it back into place. I feel it needs mixed a little. lol
Vape that 70mg and if a little juice makes you cup, I bet it surely will.
Nicotine seems to be the big wave and the rest appear to be the little annoying ripples that dig at your system. Like that itch you can't sctatch.

Just thought of something. When I've had the snus in for 15-20 min and then vaped the 36mg. The hiccups start within 1-3 min. Since the snus was in 1st with the nic on blood levels, that would lead to believe that vape adsorbtion does take place faster than I had thought. Soooo...the constant vaping part is taking the nic levels ok and we are just chasing the cat for the rest thats not in the purified nic of eliquid.

Off to read the blog.............

[DVap]

ps: Given the modes and focii of action of many alkaloids such as gamma carboline, wonder if there is a connection between the alt-alkoloid seekers and being 'night owls' ...

Heh.. I've met a few folks who never met an alkaloid they didn't like. Some of them aren't with us anymore.

[frankie1]

[QUOTE=kinabaloo

ps: Given the modes and focii of action of many alkaloids such as gamma carboline, wonder if there is a connection between the alt-alkoloid seekers and being 'night owls' ...

(there is a connection with melatonin)[/QUOTE]

I am one of the ones that haven't quit smoking yet because there is "something missing". I am now and have always been a "night owl". I can be so sleepy that I can't stand it in the afternoon, early evening and as the night progresses the more wide awake I become. I have always taken what I call power naps....15 minutes tops and I am wide awake even with little to no sleep the previous night. Do the two relate, in your opinion? I am trying to keep up here, but you guys are way over my head!!

[frankie1]

DVap: I have visited your blog and it is a very good read. The information is clear and easy to understand...well as easy as you can make it for the scientifically challenged LOL

[frankie1]

Oh I should have said....like me ^^^^^

[frankie1]

I googled calming alkaloids and found out a bit about them:

1. Some are used to treat IBS, which might account for the many who report constipation in the early days of vaping

2. The withdrawal from the Belladona alkaloids produces the exact symptoms I am experiencing in my efforts

3. Over time doesn't work as well

4. "Along with its benefits, this medication may rarely cause abnormal drug-seeking behavior (addiction)."

source: Phenobarb-Belladonna Alkaloids Oral : Uses, Side Effects, Interactions, Pictures, Warnings & Dosing - WebMD

Hmm wonder if these are in cigarettes and how much we have been inhaling. I wonder if the amount we get from cigarettes is sufficient to create the above effects.

[frankie1]

From the same source:

Antacids lower the absorption of this medication. If you are taking an antacid, take it at least 2 hours apart from this medication.

And if not extended release form, should be taken 3-4 times a day.

Could these alkaloids explain why those most heavily addicted to cigarettes continue to smoke, albeit weaning themselves totally, while those who have not smoked as long make the switch more easily?

I am sure some of you are already aware of this information, but those of us who are less familiar with the pharmacology aspect of smoking would really appreciate your input into this...or at least I would, because I am struggling here! I am trying to learn how to quit.

Thanks

[olderthandirt]

From the same source:
...appreciate your input into this...or at least I would, because I am struggling here! I am trying to learn how to quit.

Thanks

Good morning frankie
You mentioned earlier you were going to try some snus you had. How did that go?

[kinabaloo]

frankie1 - just thinking aloud. It is known that the two types of people - larks and owls - exist because of differences in the length of day of the body block being a bit longer or shorter than 24 hours. So probably not related to biochemical imbalance as causal, but just might be some connection that relates to 'self-medication' with various alkaloids.

Nicotine constitutes about 90-95% of the alkaloids in tobacco (not completely sure if this figure includes all nicotine-like alkaloids or just nicotine). So if there are others that are important, they would need to be quite powerful given their small quantities. The next three most common ones are nornicotine (~2.5%+?) and anatabine (~0.2%-4% depending who you ask; TRC | Search Results and anabasine; so the remainder would be in (very) small quantities.

http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-p...g&size=largest Image of introduction, with full pdf available.

also: ScienceDirect - Journal of Chromatography B : Enantiomeric analysis of anatabine, nornicotine and anabasine in commercial tobacco by multi-dimensional gas chromatography and mass spectrometry

So anatabine and anabasine might be key 'missing' alkaloids.
Anabasine and anatabine as biomarkers for tobacco use during nicotine replacement therapy

ps: the Phenobarb-Belladonna Alkaloids you mention are barbiturates that affect the GABA mediated pathway, and would indeed be relaxing in nature - but not sure they exist in tobacco; though quite possible (likely even) that they are there but in very tiny amounts (so probably not significant?)

DVap - as the only alkaloids that would be present are those in tobacco, and the extraction method is unlikely to concentrate a minor one (?), this should be pretty safe.