So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Welcome dataguru . You should feel proud to have been one of the few with the fortitude to read through this. I'm glad you did, there's a lot of subtleties, twists, jumping around...without a full read, though, it's just impossible to get the full effect of the knowledge gained. Thank you. You could very well be in "Group X" of the vaping crowd, but hope abounds. Stick around and you'll have the full support of some of the best people on the forum .
sunset, I thought your statement: "I understand and I've often wondered the same, if I'd knew this before I even started this route would I try? Not sure, but sure glad I did!!" is right on the mark. If I'd have known at the onset I don't think I would have attempted it. I couldn't be happier that I did, now .
OTD, thanks for that link: http://www.clubsnus.com/Products/. I checked it out and it has a lot of really good info. Thanks, Friend .

[TWISTED VICTOR]

And on another interesting note, I have 306 posts in this thread........and I can't even spell. Ok, so I'm a little bored....

[TropicalBob]

OK, back to MAO. I remember the very first findings of Dr. Murray Laugesen of Health New Zealand. He's a respected tobacco researcher paid by Ruyan to test their products. In his very first tests, he found undesirable chemicals he attributed to flavoring components, particularly tobacco extracts. In December 2007, Ruyan stopped using tobacco extracts.

It appears the tobacco extracts are WTA. It also appears they create undesirable chemicals in the vapor, as we know combusting tobacco does. So I went back and pulled some relevant quotes from Laugesen's research, along with a paragraph from a New Scientist article. The bottom line to me is: We do not get full satisfaction from e-smoking -- I certainly do not. But when we add a tobacco product, such as snus or nasal snuff, we get those missing alkaloids and improve our satisfaction.

Here are some quotes:

MAO inhibitor compounds (such as harman and norharman) in tobacco smoke tend to potentiate the effect of the nicotine. If this proves to be a strong factor, then the nicotine-only e-cigarette will be much less addictive than smoking tobacco cigarettes. Even if some become addicted to nicotine through the e-cigarette, this does not increase their risk of cancer, heart or lung disease, or of early death.

The cartridge liquid no longer uses tobacco extract (Appendix 1). Monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzyme in blood platelets is strongly inhibited by tobacco smoke extract but the cartridge liquid had no such effect. MAO has been regarded as a potentiator of the reinforcing (addictive) effects of nicotine, but in the case of the e-cigarette, any nicotine effect would appear to be due to nicotine alone.

Results. Monoamine oxidase (MAO) enzymes both A and B, were strongly inhibited by tobacco smoke extracts but the cartridge liquid alone had no such effect.

Conclusion. The Ruyan E-cigarette cartridge liquid does not behave like a tobacco extract. The absence of a MAO inhibitor effect means the e-cigarette has no detectable addictive potential beyond that of nicotine alone.

Marcus Munafo, a researcher on the influences of addictive behaviour at the University of Bristol, UK, suspects that part of the problem is down to the other chemicals present in real cigarettes. Although nicotine is the primary addictive component of tobacco, there are other components in the smoke that enhance nicotine's addictive potential. The brain mechanisms behind this are unclear but animal studies suggest that chemicals in smoke other than nicotine inhibit up to 40 per cent of the activity of an enzyme called monoamine oxidase. Nicotine prompts the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine, whose action in the brain is linked to the pleasurable effects of smoking. It has been suggested that MAO inhibition might decrease the re-uptake of dopamine, giving genuine cigarettes a double-whammy effect. - from New Scientist

This might help us understand further the "what's missing" problem.

[a2dcovert]

Thanks for the insite TB. Looks like you guys have been on the right track all along. I wonder if the WTA's were left in the eLiquid would we get a better satisfaction? Or are the combinations of the eLiquid along with the snus a better option for us?

[olderthandirt]

Indeed T Bob, seems to support and reinforce all the speculation and theorizing we've been about here.

Wonder just what is meant by "tobacco extract". That the quotes say it is no longer used, where is the nicotine coming from if not a tobacco extract...

[exogenesis]

Perhaps we could get DVap to send him a sample of his WTA to test for MAOI effects.

40% inhibition does seem an incredibly strong effect from a small amount of smoke.

[a2dcovert]

Or maybe DVap could get the receipe for the original "tobacco extract"?

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Well TBob, I guess we call that "all in a nut shell". Though we have a lot of info contained in this thread to back-up Dr. Murray Laugesen's findings, it's a good summary that should have a prominant posting around here for current and future "what's missing" searchers. So I take it the original e-liquid was a WTA liquid. What a shame they changed it. Thanks for all the research, TB .


[quote=[B]olderthandirt[/B];884082]

Wonder just what is meant by "tobacco extract". quote]
I wonder the same thing. Maybe along the lines of DVap's WTA? Surely not the extracts used for flavoring.?.
[quote=[B]exogenesis[/B];884117]

40% inhibition does seem an incredibly strong effect from a small amount of smoke.[/quote]
Oh, how loved those Pall Mall's.

[exogenesis]

Suspect that if original e-liquid was really like WTA, they might
have changed to pure nic. cos of the nitrosamines are probably in there as well
(? maybe DVap can confirm that ?)

Pall Mall, phooey, capstans & gauloise were a mans smoke
actually the latter made me feel like retching

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Suspect that if original e-liquid was really like WTA, they might
have changed to pure nic. cos of the nitrosamines are also in there as well
(?, maybe DVap can confirm or deny that ?)

Pall Mall, phooey, capstans & gauloise were a mans smoke
actually the latter made me feel like retching

That's the way I figure it. A little forward think about the "anti-brigade". Capstans & Gauloise? What's that? And I'll have you know Pall Mall uses the finest horse dung smokeable...... Shouldn't you be in a lab?...where'd I put those keys, again....Martha, exo's loose again...