So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[olderthandirt]

Got nearly all the Lorann flavours, but turns out only a couple of oils.

Might go flavour mad,
is cranberry a bad taste for snus, doesn't sound too bad, too weak ?

edit: thread crossover:
seems V2 tobacco use 'powders or spirits or oils' (as well as PG & glycerol)
Raw materials -Snus- V2 Tobacco

Just weak, very bland overall.

[a2dcovert]

Guess everyone left early tonight. I like the thunder snus, I have the thunder wintergreen and the frosted mini's. The frosted mini's have a good flavor and you get a full 8mg in a smaller size portion.

[dataguru]

VICTOR

Just a speculation, dataguru, but I feel the same. Even though the effects from the alkaloids stay in the system much longer than the nicotine, the overall satisfaction level with snus is through the roof in effect and longevity. My experience is like yours, a real smoke doesn't hold a candle to it. There must be a higher content of alkaloids in snus, maybe through the different curing process. As a matter of fact, when I smoked I woke up craving nicotine, but I don't with the snus. Now, I can't say this about the Camel or Marlboro. The Marlboro did help some until I got some Swedish snus, but the difference is about like comparing a Chevy Vega to a Lamborgini Diablo. Somehow, the Swedes have a magic touch

Vaporer

I think the reason snus is working so much better is the amount of time its left in and the fact the mucous tissue adsorbs and then keeps releasing it. An analog is done delivering in 5-7min.

Note, I woke up not craving thing morning. wow!

Comparing the process of getting the active ingredients into our blood stream: Snus--Leaching out and being absorbed thru the mucosa
Burning tobacco--the actual stuff in smoke and release of stuff from the tobacco from being heated by the coal.

(on a side note, I put in a general mini mint an hour ago so I'm just fine chemically at the moment. I just reached for a cig, purely out of habit! Cuz when I think hard, I generally smoke. Wonder how long 30 years worth of habits is going to take to overcome.)

definitely has to be different proportions of the various active ingredients being absorbed from the two delivery methods. The snus wins hands down in terms of the physiological effects it produces and the length of those effects. It's missing the behavioral aspects of the smoking habit tho.

Cigs taste nasty to me, as does the snus so far. General white is seriously nasty. lol but the general dry mini mints aren't bad at least til the mint wears off. That's a good idea with using the oil based flavorings.

Going back to extracting the active ingredients from tobacco for vaping purposes, it if can be done the delivery method would resemble cigs more than it would snus, short term puffing rather than sitting there leaching... tho I still would expect significant absorption via the mucosa, just not as prolonged a dose. so if indeed we could get the active ingredients into juice, it should work in a similar manner to some degree given the difference in delivery method

With snus, we have saliva saturating it and we swallow that. It is also in almost direct contact with the mucosa in the mouth thru the thin pouch material. So two potential mechanisms for absorption there, but both likely involving saliva as the solvent.

Saliva is mostly water with a very small amount of enzymes to break down starch and fat. I wonder how much those affect stuff leaching out of tobacco.

Do we know anything about the absorption process?
Is it a passive process just involving diffusion (solutes moving from a higher to a lower area of concentration0 and/or osmosis (fluids moving from a lower to a higher solute concentration)?
or are there active transport processes happening in the mucosa that move the active ingredients into the blood stream?

Salt is a part of the snus if memory serves. I think I saw 3% salt in the general white when I looked. So that would indicate that solutes would move from the tobacco pouch into the saliva (diffusion) where they contact the mucosa. I'd suspect the solute concentration of the snus/saliva juice would still be higher than the solute concentration of the blood, so solutes in the juice would want to move into the blood stream. I wonder how much of the active ingredients getting into the blood stream is they hitch a ride into the blood via diffusion of salts.

Where I'm going with this is back to the problem of extracting the active ingredients for vaping. The big dilemma I see from dvap is that is a fairly complex process using solvents need to be used to extract the active ingredients and leave the stuff that would gunk up current atomizers. He's stumped not at extracting the active ingredients, but in standardizing the process so others could do it. It's not something just anyone has the know how to do. You hafta know how to deal with this or that as it comes up and we don't have the heuristics in place that he does to deal with making sure the extraction process is happy.

Going back to snus being effective in mostly water in the mouth makes me wonder if water is all that's needed to extract the active ingredients out of (perhaps salted) tobacco and that would leave us with just needing a way to get rid or the junk that would goop up atomizers...

TropicalBob: do you perceive that using snus soaked in pg in carts gets you close to the same effects you get from snus?

or maybe what we need is just a different design for delivering the juice an a flavored mist to solve the issue of killing atomizers. Is there another delivery method that would allow us to get the active ingredient mix from tobacco/snus and mimic the behavioral aspect of smoking? I think that may be the question we need to be asking rather than being stuck in the vaping box. Either that or find some commercial entity who does have the capacity to produce a juice containing the correct profile of active ingredients.

given snus is better than cigs in it's physiological effects, why do I care if we get an ejuice that mimicks cigs. I think that's the smoker in me talking. Even tho I hate the taste of cigs, the experience of smoking is part of my habit. It's how I've calmed myself, it's how I deal with being upset, it's what I do when I'm working on a difficult conceptual problem in my work, etc. smoke a cig.

That habitual aspect of smoking is why having a better concoction to vape would be good. (looks at my pack of cigs on the desk but doesn't reach for it). I think I want an ejuice that mimics snus, not cigs. That way you get the effects of snus and still get to keep the behavioral habit of smoking something without burning anything and all the nastiness that involves.

Hope I didn't ramble too much!
interesting stuff.

Betty

[TropicalBob]

Whoa: Look at the pile-on posting. This addresses TV's comment awhile ago ...

Oden's is simply the most disgusting snus I've ever tried. It stinks like dead fish in the sun on a dock for two weeks and tastes gag-me gross. The hit comes on too suddently to remove the snus, so you're stuck with dizziness and disorientation for an hour or so.

I've never disliked a snus this much. But .. I paid for it, I'll finish it.

[TropicalBob]

Betty: I view vaping a soaked snus as a last resort should a ban impact e-liquid. I like flavored e-liquid, but it does not satisfy me as a former smoker of 30 a day for 50 years. Snus does much better in that regard.

Is vaping a snus much like using it orally? I can't really tell you. It did produce tasty vapor, but I never just vape. Every day, I consume numerous Stonewall dissolvable pellets, numerous portions of snus, some nasal snuff, and about three pipes. I use about 1mg to 1.5mg of e-liquid each day. It's a nice mix that keeps me balanced and content.

I prefer all of these used as they are intended to be. Soaking tobacco in PG or VG for its nicotine doesn't work -- although a few theorists seem to think so. It doesn't. So find an alternative you enjoy, and use it IN CONJUNCTION with your e-smoking. That's the only way I've succeeded.

[olderthandirt]

..
Oden's is simply the most disgusting snus I've ever tried. It stinks like dead fish in the sun on a dock for two weeks...

hehe
You should consider doing reviews!

So succinct, to the point!

[The Wiz]

hehe
You should consider doing reviews!

So succinct, to the point!

Heck OTD....TB's Video reviews of Dholakia Swiss Chocolate and Wow Coffee Bite were the deciding factor for me trying snuff....so he's done a few already!(Although I still think he got it wrong with the Sandalwood...Ghastly stuff IMO)The Wiz!

[SmokeyJoe]

OK - this thread is just too long now, and is putting an unacceptable strain on the server. If anyone wishes to carry on the thread, please start a new one and PM me - I'll link to it from this one.

Thanks!

SJ

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Ahem....testing testing.....

[olderthandirt]

OMG!

It's alive

It's alive !

I'm done