So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[Vaporer]

MickiO,

One would be well advised to read DVap thread on determining nic.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...-new-post.html

Analogs are about 10% efficient and DVaps testing proves that e cigs and liquid are almost 50% efficient in nic delivery.
Thats a hard fact to challenge.

Sure, there will always be 2 sides to anything. DVaps tests proved the nicotine content in the recovered vapor vs the starting amount.

Maybe someone should show trog the thread......................

martha,
DVaps tests also show the the suppliers tested were pretty much "dead on" with a couple exceptions. It pretty well covers "are we getting what we pay for".
At least to me it does..................
At this point, I'd discount anything the FDA says due to thier already proven biasing and skewed reporting to the public what was actually found and the way they decided to test it against an inhaler , not an analog, and then tell just part of the story that favored thier position.
How many people are using an ecig to replace an inhaler?
If they had tested it against an analog they would have had no case.

[kinabaloo]

Thanks TBob. (I know you know this, but for other readers: one would only be able to patent a novel extraction or delivery system, not the naturally occuring substances.)

Kelly - Welcome I also find that nicotine alone is too stimulating, wheras smoking is more mellow (even though faster in effect). This doesn't quite capture it, I'll leave it at 'more rounded'.

The MAOIs are already in the nicotine, no need to add them; just not remove them The (more or less) perfect blend is already right there in the tobacco.

It is important to stress this point: this is not about adding anything to e-liquid. It is still about removing all the unnecessary and bad stuff from tobacco.

Just as nicotine is the predominant alkaloid (perhaps in effect too), MAOI activity is likely the major effect of the other alkaloids; but likely not the only other activity - there could be other activity taking place too, not (directly) related to dopamine but other neurotransmitters.

Alkaloids are naturally occurring chemical compounds containing basic (alkaline) nitrogen atoms. There are a very large number of alkaloids; even caffeine and capsaicin are alkaloids, and (I think) cannabinoids; nearly all the psycoactive chemicals in fact. So we are possibly looking at a dozen or so besides nicotine, acting in a number of different ways.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Uh, amateur here. Kpolen, good points for sure and that has been my way of thinking also, but Dvap hits the nail on the head. These chemicals are already in the tobacco but are being extracted as the nic is purified. His goal is to find if it can be less refined to have the same effect on us unfortunates without leaving in a bunch of stuff that drove us away from smoking in the first place.... I'm staying tuned in. Hail Marys await.

[Vaporer]

Welcome kpolen!

TB,
I appreciate all the info you've given me to work with and refer to it quite often , crediting you.
I believe it was Whistlrr that did the Nicotrol in the mouth test. Said it tasted like crap, but had an instant nic hit.
Using a claibrated metered sprayer, nic liquid and even a little snus juice added for the X Factor wouldnt be that difficult. Diluted a little more and a touch of flavor, shhhh the kids may be reading this....lol) may have the need for a few more sprays, but give the total effect, barring the oral fixation and hand ingrained gestures.

I did try the dissolvables Ariva and Stonewall. They reduce the nic craving, but still miss the XFactor effects TB. I attribute that to a more refined processing removing more constituients.

I see it as a totally feasible possibilty.

[kinabaloo]

Uh, amateur here. Kpolen, good points for sure and that has been my way of thinking also, but Dvap hits the nail on the head. These chemicals are already in the tobacco but are being extracted as the nic is purified. His goal is to find if it can be less refined to have the same effect on us unfortunates without leaving in a bunch of stuff that drove us away from smoking in the first place.... I'm staying tuned in. Hail Marys await.

Just a refinement :

Extracting all the alkaloids (and nothing else) can be done to a high level of purity. So people don't get the wrong idea, this is not a less pure extraction - it is just as pure, but extracting a range rather than a single element. Can be done just as precisely.

[Vaporer]

Point taken Kin.

When I refer to "loss due to processing", its the general processing they use to just get the nic.
Very true that processing can be in such a way to keep what is wanted and discard the unwanted.
It could actually save refining steps and overall cost they use now saving what is needed.

[Vaporer]

42109,

In answer to your USP labeling question here is what I found.
"USP verifies the quality, purity, and potency of dietary supplement finished products, dietary supplement ingredients, and pharmaceutical ingredients. Products and ingredients that pass all USP verification requirements—including a GMP audit, product and ingredient testing, and manufacturing documentation review—are awarded the distinctive USP Verified Mark. Participation is voluntary and available to manufacturers worldwide. USP's verification services draw upon its experience of nearly 200 years in setting federally recognized public standards of quality for medicines and, more recently, dietary supplements that are used today in more than 130 countries around the world."

Dictating ""For animal use only" , especially one consumed by humans has to meet the food chain requirement laws. It seems that labeling allows to sell at lower cost without conflict and in no way reduces the standards required to be met.

More can be read here: USP Verified

Many years ago a magazine Mother Earth News found that in a survival situation antibiotics sold for animals had to meet and were actually produced by the same companies as what was in pharmacies for humans. Just at a much lower cost.
You can search online archives for the article.

If you are referring to Tractor Supplys, Dionnes Ketosis Treatment (for cattle), the picture showing food grade on the website is old and incorrect.
I have a gallon purchased from them and it says 100% Propoleyne Glycol USP Grade.

Hope this is of some help.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Just a refinement :

Extracting all the alkaloids (and nothing else) can be done to a high level of purity. So people don't get the wrong idea, this is not a less pure extraction - it is just as pure, but extracting a range rather than a single element. Can be done just as precisely.

Oh, "I see" said the blind man. Thanks. My mind works in mechanical ways, so I had this picture in my head of Dvap holding a giant strainer over a mixing bowl and pouring a bubbling cauldron full of nicotine stew through it. Funny how the mind works.

[DVap]

PS Any doctors or chemists around???

I wonder sometimes if some of the folks here actually read (or at least browse) the entire thread?

[DVap]

Oh, "I see" said the blind man. Thanks. My mind works in mechanical ways, so I had this picture in my head of Dvap holding a giant strainer over a mixing bowl and pouring a bubbling cauldron full of nicotine stew through it. Funny how the mind works.

Naw, my procedure was quite a bit more "scientific" than that.

The strainer was a beaker with glass wool over it, the cauldron was a separatory funnel, and the stew was tobacco extract with the appropriate solvents. But I did stir it with a broom, if that makes you feel better.