So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Olderthandirt, my friend, I knew you'd be lurking nearby.

[olderthandirt]

I don't lurk Twisted, I just wait till my input is needed

[Vaporer]

Actually with the lower temps and no combustion the 4000 should be greatly reduced.
It does sound like something they'd prefer to not let out.

The unit getting hotter by draw......hmmmmmm......burning glycerine to harmful temps.
I take it you mean acrolein.
There is a way to control that. It's called a hole. Of a given size of course.
A critical orfice. Won't matter how hard you suck, only so much can pass through.
Easy to make the harder draw reduce the "hole" size too.........
Wonder why they didn't think of that?
I'm no rocket scientist.
Why would they worry abt a little acrolein when they are allowing 3,999 other things?

I have a tendency to step in when dirt is quiet

[olderthandirt]

And I'm going to stay quiet. Busy holding on by fingernails along with Twisted.

None of this isolation of specific alkaloids and the role they play has been researched, documented previously? Or it just wasn't deemed cost effective to pursue as long as we were content with smoke?

I will now resume my quiet state till next needed.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

And I'm going to stay quiet. Busy holding on by fingernails along with Twisted.

None of this isolation of specific alkaloids and the role they play has been researched, documented previously? Or it just wasn't deemed cost effective to pursue as long as we were content with smoke?

I will now resume my quiet state till next needed.

Maybe they never thought to look at it from a smokers standpoint. Then, again, maybe the Chinese are.

[DVap]

OTD,

The most that'll happen, if anything, assuming there is something to this, is that the FDA will do a study, announce that it doesn't work, and then try to ban the hell out of it.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

And I'm going to stay quiet. Busy holding on by fingernails along with Twisted.

Move over a little, could ya. My elbow's stuck in your shoe. Snus smells good, though.

[Vaporer]

Oh.they know they are there and what they do. They've admitted to changing them for effect.
It takes some net surfing , but there are partial lists posted of additives. Start looking them up and thier effects. What they form and the way they interact is listed in some online reports. That's what they let out. Makes you wonder what they didn't.
Over cooking them...........I couldn't venture a guess.
The latest is a fire retardent in the paper. Someone found the report and its on You Tube showing a RYO and a standard analog. It will not stay lit unless puffed fairly regular.
Supposed to help prevent fires from falling asleep with them.
Glad I'm off analogs........my lungs didnt need put out or any more of thier help.

[kinabaloo]

A pizza, say, is not much of a pizza if it's only dough, even if that is the main part. E-liquids followed the error of NRT products in just equating smoking with nicotine. As one can tell from the words of DVap, the sister alkaloids might be small in quantity, but important for the roundness. Just as seasoning makes the pizza.

And DVap's not (he said) even in the 'something missing' group! Perhaps even the those who can get by with just nic, will 'get by' better with the 'real thing'.

While there's a big difference in effect, the difference in composition is small, and all from tobacco, to replace tobacco. There should be no opposition; actually it should be welcome - a more effective alternative to smoking.

As I said before, this should pass testing for unreasonable toxicity just the same (no worse than NRTs, and that's 100s times better than analogs), so no problem.

However, obviously it would be wise to make the small change to e-liquid formulation as soon as possible so it is accepted from the off, and doesn't need to be won in a second battle (if it does work out that way); if it did come to a battle, just do the test that shows that vapers of multi-alkaloids vape less, and more of them stay off the smokes.

From a regulatory point of view there's no difference between the two, but any change in composition might require a re-submission; so let's get the changes made now.

The FDA, just like any other organisation, is not homogenous. We need to work with all people who are willing to listen, and win the argument with science and logic and cool-heads.

edit : have now published an article on this here :

New reasearch shows promise for improved e-liquid

DVap - Let me know if / how you'd like to be credited / mentioned.

[DVap]

A pizza, say, is not much of a pizza if it's only dough, even if that is the main part. E-liquids followed the error of NRT products in just equating smoking with nicotine. As one can tell from the words of DVap, the sister alkaloids might be small in quantity, but important for the roundness. Just as seasoning makes the pizza.

And DVap's not (he said) even in the 'something missing' group! Perhaps even the those who can get by with just nic, will 'get by' better with the 'real thing'.

While there's a big difference in effect, the difference in composition is small, and all from tobacco, to replace tobacco. There should be no opposition; actually it should be welcome - a more effective alternative to smoking.

As I said before, this should pass testing for unreasonable toxicity just the same (no worse than NRTs, and that's 100s times better than analogs), so no problem.

However, obviously it would be wise to make the small change to e-liquid formulation as soon as possible so it is accepted from the off, and doesn't need to be won in a second battle (if it does work out that way); if it did come to a battle, just do the test that shows that vapers of multi-alkaloids vape less, and more of them stay off the smokes.

From a regulatory point of view there's no difference between the two, but any change in composition might require a re-submission; so let's get the changes made now.

The FDA, just like any other organisation, is not homogenous. We need to work with all people who are willing to listen, and win the argument with science and logic and cool-heads.

edit : have now published an article on this here :

New reasearch shows promise for improved e-liquid

DVap - Let me know if / how you'd like to be credited / mentioned.

Well, to say that no-one has produced this is incorrect. No one has done it commercially, but I have finished the extraction and complete removal of solvent to produce a copper brown liquid of exceptional clarity that has a density of 1.00 (nicotine, presumably 90% of what is present has a density of 1.01). It will be mixed with 50:50 USP PG/VG to a final volume of 15.0 mL, resulting in 15 mL of a liquid that is 28 mg/mL in tobacco alkaloids and presumably 25.2 mg/mL in nicotine (using the assumption that nicotine represents 90% of the tobacco alkaloid spread), or to put it another way, the liquid will be 25.2 mg/mL in nicotine, and 2.8 mg/mL in non-nicotine tobacco alkaloids.

kin, feel free to refer to it as proof of concept research. Hell, come up with an abstract if you want, just run it by me first. Obviously it would be good to characterize the alkaloids, but as I'm not going to misuse the GCMS equipment at my disposal (turning it to non-approved use), I'm not going to be the person paying for that characterization! As for credit, I'm not big on having my name in lights, so I'll be happy to remain, "A U.S. chemist".