So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[IANAN]

So let me get this straight. RJRT creates a heating-tobacco cigarette, the Eclipse (Eclipse - Tobacco Products), which depending on how it is used can still burn tobacco, although 70-90% less than an analog. FDA says sure, no problem, its certainly safer than an anaolg, go ahead RJRT!! The smoke from these, although less than an anolog, is still burning tobbacco smoke!

And they are having a fit over PVs, which burn nothing and do not have the carcinogenic chemicals of tobacco smoke.

Clearly, the mistake we are making is that we are not burning tobacco. This whole ridiculous saga with the FDA reminds me of a child caught in a lie, and having to lie again and again to cover his tracks.

PM and RJRTs release of their products sparked a lawsuit between the FDA and The BT companies that made it to the Supreme Court... In essence the FDA wanted to control these products as NRTs however the Supreme Court voted 5-4 that they were tobacco products hence could not be regulated by the FDA as congress never gave the FDA authority over tobacco products (The ATF was given authority over those).

It is only more recently that the FDA has been given control by congress over tobacco...

Anyhow decided to go "shopping" today... it was a little disappointing. Ran into four well known stores to look for MOAIs (Preferably containing Harmala alkaloids ) containing herbal supplements... I have some Kava Kava on hand but the expiration date was 2001 and I only have 9 capsules left . The "Good People" have really done a number here. Most of the mood enhancing supplements have been removed from the shelves...

...Anyhow settled on a supplement purchased from a well known pharmacy store that has W and the word green in its name. The supplement contains Valerian (Not What I was Looking for), Hops (Are we brewing beer ?), Passion Flower Extract (What I was looking for), and Lemon Balm... Anyhow I don't know if it was placebo or not but I did vape and smoke (Down to 1/3 of what I normally do when vaping alone) less... really didn't have a strong desire to smoke . The Valerian root was 450 mg and the calming blend (The Hops, Passion Flower Extract, etc) is 100 mg in this supplement.

The theory here is it should be possible to supplement Vaping, or other NRTs, with an an herbal supplement with a better safety profile instead of tobacco itself in order to discontinue the use of tobacco altogether...

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Dvap and kin, I think I've got this straight, WTA simply means a given nic level would include a given amount of this alkaloid spectrum, ratio staying the same, right? So, theoretically, we might assume that with WTA the satisfaction level comes up, stays longer? Probably not any faster, due to the delivery from vaping, though. Also, theoretically, some of us may be a little overkill on the nic mg to try and compensate for the lack of these alkaloids, maybe? Just trying to stay up with you.

[kinabaloo]

Dvap and kin, I think I've got this straight, WTA simply means a given nic level would include a given amount of this alkaloid spectrum, ratio staying the same, right? So, theoretically, we might assume that with WTA the satisfaction level comes up, stays longer? Probably not any faster, due to the delivery from vaping, though. Also, theoretically, some of us may be a little overkill on the nic mg to try and compensate for the lack of these alkaloids, maybe? Just trying to stay up with you.

Correct

Tentatively, the other alkaloids constitute ~10% of the total.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Thanks, kin, I thought so, but never too sure of myself. Boy, this thread has came a long way from it's origins. I understood where Trog was coming from and even made my own feeble post, but, I figured it would all trail off....but, some guys just don't know when to call it quits.

[ladybug]

Really interesting post, and I've had much the same experiences, and the mechanics of it is a mystery to me. You can rest assured that you're not alone.

I could never quit using e-cigs, not even close. I could vap for an hour straight and I still needed a cig. Started using snus and all was well. It gave me the nicotine satisfaction I needed, and the whole oral fixation thing just fell away. Very much a secondary issue for me.

I'm not going to question the validity of those that can quit with e-cigs. I believe it, more power to you. I'm just happy I found a good source of my beloved nicotine from a clean high quality source. If someone figures out whats going on clue the rest of us in please.

I agree,snus did the trick for me,though I try to use small portions cuz hubby says I look like homer simpson(upper lip sticking out) if I use full portions.

[Vaporer]

Just tell him you are going for the Angelina Jolie look lol
snus does take the extra off that seems to be missing.
Kind like what got to the "whats missing " part.
The results here so far and in snus threads pretty well substaniate nic alone will help, but not satisfy all.
Check out DVap's blog and see what catagory you are in.

Just like Virgina Slims.........we've come along way baby hahaha

Main credit to certain people, but credit to all because it tells a mystery story you would have thought the gov would have figured out. Or , they knew it and decided to play both sides for the $.

<insert Alfred Hitchcock Theme Here>

[four2109]

Vaporer and Dvap.
Thanks for your help on the USP question.
It is "Priority" brand from Tractor Supply. I got a pint of Paddock from the pharmacy, then filled my empty Paddock pint bottle with the Priority brand just to make sure it wasn't because of the volume of liquid. The Paddock has a very faint odor. The Priority is much stronger and something between rubbing alcohol and laquer thinner is the only way I can describe it. The first pint lasted me 6 months so I think I'll just try to kill some weeds with this stuff.
Thanks again,

Dvap Great Work! I volunteer to be a LabRat!

[four2109]

Ianan,
Try a health food store. I got 350mg capsules. 100 for $8.00. What a difference!

[IANAN]

Ianan,
Try a health food store. I got 350mg capsules. 100 for $8.00. What a difference!

I paid 7.99 for 100 capsules of the supplement... I did hit GNC -- They had nothing useful (Well they did have some Rhodelia)... tried to sell me some vitamin C when I was looking for MOAIs... Might try online for some passion flower extract. I don't want to mess with Syrian Rue or Caapi.

-- Anyhow did some more reading and got the answer I was looking for in regards to why PM looked so heavily at particle size. With regards to e-cigs;

Nicotine absorption site The nicotine dose and
particle size are too small to ensure deposition in
the alveoli or bronchioles and rapid nicotine
absorption as in cigarette smoking.

They basically concluded that e-cig vapor is absorbed through the upper respiratory system and not the lungs... that would explain the 10% measured in the blood vs 40% in vapor difference and the tMax question.

[Vaporer]

42109,
Odd, mines odor is no different than my 16oz bottle from the pharmacy.
It's labeled as 100%, not 99. whatever USP Grade.
If you read the links, not room for error. Makes one wonder about how it might have been stored, accidently had a spill on it.................
If it had that odor, I wouldn't vape it.