So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[DVap]

I should mention.. running off to the mountains for a day with the boy does not suggest some alkaloid-induced ascent into zen-like hippy tranquility.

I've done a good 4,000 miles on foot up there and I've spent a few hundred nights up there as well... the mountains are a second home home to me . I've had the boy doing the same since he was 3. It was business as usual for us!

The PV actually remained in the car.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Oh no

I'm hearing Nicholas Cage now also!

This is the kind of musing that the brighter minds feed on Twisted.

Now if you'll excuse me I think I'll go plug Night Rider into the DVD and some more 48 into me

Nick's nose is bigger....and feet....and probably , never mind. Anyway, I've thought alot about this in the past week, maybe. You know, looking at patterns and so forth, and wanted to bring it up earlier, but didn't know how to relate it. Hey, Vaporer pushed the button, not me. I think it fits in pretty well with the self-medicating things people have brought up. Also, we seem to be safe from head doctors around here so I said "Why not?". Let the feeding begin.

[Vaporer]

Actually, those answers don't surprize me.
The group is still focused on just a couple of flavors or non flavors.
Nothing like the groups that are constantly bouncing from one flavor to another.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[kinabaloo]

As for the FDA regulating nicotine levels... I honestly think that for most, this is a step in the wrong direction. Regulating tar levels would make a lot more sense. I am firmly of the belief (with all other things being equal - tar, TSNAs, etc.) that higher nicotine is BETTER overall in terms of safety. From what I have observed (myself and others), the more nicotine you get, the less you will use your tobacco/non-tobacco nicotine-containing product of choice. Therefore you will experience *fewer* health risks in total, since nicotine itself is not especially harmful.

--K

Agreed. It's only logical. This would hold true even with e-liquid - though the toxin level is far lower, it makes sense to make higher nic available, and WTA too.

DVap - only a little joking, of course. The reported lower consumption both shows that WTA works, and will be even safer than normal e-liquid, in all likelihood.

[kinabaloo]

Btw, last month wrote this long article in the forums here about nicotine, MAOIs, absorption, etc., that predates DVap's extraction of WTA.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...tml#post683086

Lots of links in there.

[olderthandirt]

Actually, those answers don't surprize me.
The group is still focused on just a couple of flavors or non flavors.
Nothing like the groups that are constantly bouncing from one flavor to another.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Absolutely! Like I said, now when I do different flavors I'm actually able to enjoy them! Prior to the snus boost I did chase after flavors for awhile thinking that might be the missing factor. So much time spent with all that was needed to change flavors with respect to carts and attys and... Seeing Jim Davis comment that unflavored was his usual I tried it and in short order the whole concept of simplicity and addiction maintenance took hold. My vaping epiphany so to say.

Just typing this out I better appreciate your point Vaporer.

Well DVap, I'm jealous of you and your mountain treks. Skyline Trail through Oregon ate quite a bit of my boot leather at one time. Too many analogs and too many years on my duff to do that anymore. Short walks only now and if there's much altitude change on those walks you know the pace is going to be a leisurely!

[olderthandirt]

Btw, last month wrote this long article about nicotine, MAOIs, absorption, etc., that predates DVap's extraction of WTA.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...tml#post683086

Lots of links in there.

Given the course this thread has taken that post is an excellent refresher Kin.

[kinabaloo]

Given the course this thread has taken that post is an excellent refresher Kin.

Thanks!

I'll need to update it soon I expect.

Just need to say again that reducing the nic level (or prohibiting WTA) would be such a STUPID thing to do. The thought is really disturbing. It is literally nonsense!

[IANAN]

But let's not gum up this thread with that...although it is interesting that tricyclics, like some MAOI's, are used for fundamental nerve pain treatment, so maybe it is ALL related to our blessed and holy WTA, hallowed be thy name...*sound of choir*.

This was the point;

Research suggests that, when smokers wish to achieve a stimulating effect, they take short quick puffs, which produce a low level of blood nicotine.[14] This stimulates nerve transmission. When they wish to relax, they take deep puffs, which produce a high level of blood nicotine, which depresses the passage of nerve impulses, producing a mild sedative effect. At low doses, nicotine potently enhances the actions of norepinephrine and dopamine in the brain, causing a drug effect typical of those of psychostimulants. At higher doses, nicotine enhances the effect of serotonin and opiate activity, producing a calming, pain-killing effect. Nicotine is unique in comparison to most drugs, as its profile changes from stimulant to sedative/pain killer in increasing dosages and use.

NRTs by design have limited nicotine in them, so we don't become addicted to them, which means the levels may never cross over to sedative. We may also be experiencing that with vaporizers . This may also be why the Patch + the gum(Or lozenge) at the same time are showing the most promising NRT quit rate....

This is especially true if there is a synergistic effect with the beta-carboline or even worse if it is potentiating a lower threshold over to sedative... Then again it could be working the other way keeping the nicotine as a stimulant for longer periods or just enhancing the stimulant period. This is why I found it odd that in the MOAI thread many people were suggesting Valerien, which is used as a sedative and sleep aid.

With the PV inhaling harder doesn't really result in a higher dose of nicotine. Dosing at high levels with the PV may never give the low stimulating effects... causing the mental desert feeling as they aren't getting the stimulant effect. Counting numbers of mouthfuls may be useful. I think the extra 5 minutes, and the suspected missing beta-carboline interaction, throws some people off so they may take more mouthfuls of a stronger fluid thus pushing the threshold over to sedation.... Using another stimulant (Caffeine perse- nothing wrong with a good cup of joe or strong tea) and fewer puffs at higher levels may be the ticket out of the mental desert feeling. A square or two of dark chocolate with a vape style with more mouthfuls when we are feeling stressed or anxious for the other end. Consuming both foodstuffs have other highly desirable health benefits.

But anyhow on the Smoker's Paradox;

Before physicians prescribe NRT or other smoking cessation , or heck even the user themselves should do this evaluation, they need to ask or evaluate, among other things, if the patient;

Suffer(ed)s from Allergic Asthma (May explain why when you quit some users experience coughs that never go away)

Suffered in the past from ADHD or exhibits symptoms of ADHD

Suffer(ed)s from Schizoid personality disorder or exhibits symptoms of a mild case of schizophrenia.

-If they do then the physician/individual may be removing the treatment by not smoking... Treatment options for those aliments should be discussed in those cases. All three aliments would require long term treatment and high doses of Nicotine and beta-carboline should be studied as an option.

[Vaporer]

OTD, when I started I was like a superball gathering every flavor I could. It took a while to figure out the newness was ok, didnt last long as something I'd like to constant vape.
All the tobacco flavors seem to be fine. Old brain imprints kicking in? Dont know.
The newness would keep a person distracted somewhat till it clamed dow and then you go looking.....I guess cause something is missing.

It was just an observation, but one I had shared in personally and see so many grabbing 6-10 flavors at a time. I guess thier wiring could be that that is what satisfies them or thier need. The constant newness. I do see alot of classifieds

Just like the snus's, all seem to work, but for me its ice or mint...more like the menthol in between I miss? My guess is yes.

All this research seems to indicate replacing our addictions with a suitable subtitute is the way to go as long as the brain chemistry is happy.

Boy, that sounded stupid....lol