So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[rickghouse]

Rick,

Acetaldehyde, Harman, and Norharman are naturally occurring in tobacco.

Thanks, IANAN! I didn't know that.

However, we're aiming at just the top few in terms of percentage of tobacco. We're trying to keep this project from getting "crazy expensive".

[IANAN]

Adding the two together, whole body exposure would be 85 ng/analog or 1.7 ug/pack.

They'd have to be potent little MAOI's...

The estimate was at per Kg of body weight.....

[kinabaloo]

Although the second most prevalent alkaloid in t smoke, I don't have the feeling that nornicotine is part of the 'something missing'; perhaps because it has similar effects to nicotine, to the extent it has any.

Nornicotine self-administered by rats:

SpringerLink - Journal Article

Also because it has a number of harmful effects, such as causing aberrant protein glycation:

A previously undescribed chemical link between smoking and metabolic disease ? PNAS

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...i?artid=166203

Then again, as a metabolite of nicotine it cannot be completely avoided; although a designed mix of alkaloids might choose to exclude it as a starting constituent.

It is however a minor metabolite (and/but the only psychoactive one):

http://www.scripps.edu/news/sr/sr2002/chm05.html

Nornicotine does have MAOI activity.

The beta carboline family seems to have the psychoactive activity we are looking for; and as far as I know, non-toxic (within limits obviously).

~~

On actetaldehyde: not a good idea, as I guess we all agree, so I won't go into details.

[IANAN]

Thanks, IANAN! I didn't know that.

However, we're aiming at just the top few in terms of percentage of tobacco. We're trying to keep this project from getting "crazy expensive".

Kin looked it up- it would add a penny to the total cost if the most efficient source is used.

Have your friend look through the list and sit down and explain the health risks involved with each of these alkaloids. Especially nornicotine.

[DVap]

Although the second most prevalent alkaloid in t smoke, I don't have the feeling that nornicotine is part of the 'something missing'; perhaps because it has similar effects to nicotine, to the extent it has any.

Nornicotine self-administered by rats:

SpringerLink - Journal Article

Also because it has a number of harmful effects, such as causing aberrant protein glycation

A previously undescribed chemical link between smoking and metabolic disease ? PNAS

Then again, as a metabolite of nicotine it cannot be completely avoided; although a designed mix of alkaloids might choose to exclude it as a starting constituent.

The beta carboline family seems to have the psychoactive activity we are looking for; and as far as I know, non-toxic (within limits obviously).
[more later]

The WTA liquid should preclude acetaldehyde, such that if IANAN's comments about acetaldehyde reacting to produce carbolines were to represent the mechanism behind the x-factor, then without acetaldehyde present, the WTA would not have worked so well.

[kinabaloo]

A study of adding minor alkaloids to nicotine

The study picked "five minor alkaloids found in tobacco smoke (anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine)."

The conclusion: "These results suggest that the minor tobacco alkaloids, particularly anatabine, cotinine and myosmine, may increase the motivation for nicotine"

The abstract (took some hunting down, this one) :

http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ne&aid=6382912

[TWISTED VICTOR]

testing....testing.......posts not posting.....testing......this thing on......testing

[IANAN]

Dvap... and the beta-carbolines wouldn't have likely vaped either in that case either because of the temperatures required?

Interesting...

Curious how well the WTA would hold up to a 1 week or 1 month test. And no- I can't fund it. Just talking out loud.

[olderthandirt]

testing....testing.......posts not posting.....testing......this thing on......testing

He's baaacckkk...

[IANAN]

ODT... I am really shocked about the effects the coffee have had... Don't know if it is just the coffee or the coffee, nicotine, and Cat's Claw together.

I mostly drink tea, but yeah... I wouldn't have suspected that much effect from just some coffee... It really shocked me how severe the effects are if I am late dosing myself with coffee.