So - are we getting it or are we not - nicotine

[Elf]

I believe that in order to get the nicotine/alkaloids out of the snus packet, you'd need to use a volume of PG that would effectively dilute out the nicotine/alkaloids, and it would still be hard to get them to leave the packet even at that.

The beauty of what TBob suggests is the the amount of PG used to wet the packet is minimal, thus producing a vapable concentration of active ingredients inside the packet.

If this works for somebody and keeps them sane, I say so what if it's tough on attys. An atty is like 7 - 12 dollars. If it lasts for only a week (to be extreme), that's still cheaper than analogs.

While I think that WTA liquid is the way to go, until and unless it becomes available, this seems a decent way to get some of the WTA benefits without having to light up to get them.

I'm really confused here. I thought the PG or VG *had* to extract the substances we were looking for in order so that it might "drip" down (as a cart would do) onto the atomizer to be vaporized. If it did not extract it in reasonably workable concentration, I don't understand how it could be vaped as it would never reach the atomizer in the first place... ??? (really scratching my head on this one)

About a week ago I barely covered a snus in VG, and let it soak about an hour, gently stirring it a few times inbetween. the VG turned perhaps a yellow tan color, and I tried dripping the (snus soaked) VG alone directly on the atomizer. I'd like to report whether it did truly work or not (the effects), but I'm afraid I made it with what I had immediately on hand (camel snus), and found the taste so terrible that after a couple puffs I quickly decided that was enough and threw it out.

[DVap]

I'm really confused here. I thought the PG or VG *had* to extract the substances we were looking for in order so that it might "drip" down (as a cart would do) onto the atomizer to be vaporized. If it did not extract it in reasonably workable concentration, I don't understand how it could be vaped as it would never reach the atomizer in the first place... ??? (really scratching my head on this one)

About a week ago I barely covered a snus in VG, and let it soak about an hour, gently stirring it a few times inbetween. the VG turned perhaps a yellow tan color, and I tried dripping the (snus soaked) VG alone directly on the atomizer. I'd like to report whether it did truly work or not (the effects), but I'm afraid I made it with what I had immediately on hand (camel snus), and found the taste so terrible that after a couple puffs I quickly decided that was enough and threw it out.

Well, yes, it is an extraction into the PG, but the volume of PG is so small, that concentration of anything that is dissolved in the PG is sufficiently high to get a positive effect. So it's an extraction from the snus into the pg, but it's not an extraction out of the snus packet by the PG. I really don't have a good name for it, but it's ideal for getting the maximum nicotine/alkaloid kick per vape from a snus packet.

[IANAN]

What about the reverse? Could you soak the snus to extract the nicotine/alkaloids and use just the liquid?

It's called Snus Juice.... and yes you can.

YouTube - How to Make Snus Juice for electronic cig

[IANAN]

The bad part of this quest to find the truth is that the medical community will go to great lengths to avoid proof that treatment for chemical imbalances can push the individual to the point of uncontrolable rage. Chemical imbalances whether influenced by natural events can also be caused by treatment with the wrong type of chemical. My theory is that something in cigarette smoke acts on the brain chemistry and the brain becomes dependant on this chemical. Lack of this chemical will result in an imbalance.

Kevin,

This article hasn't been posted yet;

Do smokers self-administer pure nicotine? A review... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004] - PubMed result

But yes... you summed it up nicely.


Okay this is how you make a crude extraction (Oh yeah-- don't try this at home these instructions are purely for educational purposes)...

1. Go to the dollar store and purchase a box of cheap teabags for $1 (Unless you happen to have empty teabags laying around).

2. Take some loose tobacco- about the same amount as you would find in a cig, and place it in the teabag.. If you don't have some loose tobacco cut open a cig. Cut open the teabag carefully and dump the tea out- place the tobacco in it and fold the top of the bag like you would a paper airplane then fold the tip over and clip it or staple it, to hold the tobacco in.

3. Place the teabag flat in a pyrex or other heat safe measuring cup or bowl (If you have a double boiler use that).

4. Add a high proof spirit (Vodka or Everclear works better) to cover just above the top of the teabag.

5. Fill a small sauce pan with a bit of water... place on low heat (it should not be boiling).

6. Take your teabag /alcohol solution and place in (measuring cup and all- don't dump the contents of the measuring cup in the water) the warm water on the stove... let it sit there under very low heat for at least 4-6 hours. You want to reduce the liquid in your measuring cup but make sure the water does not boil and you have some spirits-mixture in the cup so that it still flows.

7. You should get a brown liquid from this...

Mix the extract with either your VG or PG... and you have a crude e-liquid extract (Which I might add I am not in any way endorsing that you put that in your PV and inhale).

[Vaporer]

I need to try this with a diff approach.
Put the snus in the 801 cart, soak the portion with eliquid and top off the cart, put a cart condom on and let them sit over night(min) getting ready for use. One might find you can repeat this 2-3 times with the same portion of snus. Camel SNUS isn't really in the same catagory as Swedish type and I wouldn't base my opinion on it alone.

Using 2 attys and cycling them daily, letting the used one soak over night and the next day in a solvent should help remove some of the gunk extending the atty life. If they both happen to fail, one then the other, you just start a new cycle of 2.
Only dedicating 2 attys for this isn't like cycling 5 where if they all would fail at the same time you are out of attys.
Most people keep more than 2 in stock. A little testing could be done to see the most effective solvent to use. So its just a end of the day swap or 1st thing in the morning.
If the atty is kept wet and only one days use, very little gunk/carbon should be present.

Glad to hear the WTA prelim results are positive. From a personal standpoint, I expexted nothing less.

[olderthandirt]

...

This article hasn't been posted yet;

Do smokers self-administer pure nicotine? A review... [Psychopharmacology (Berl). 2004] - PubMed result

....

From that abstract I carried on through several of the related articles. There is a quite large body of work "out there" that contends nicotine may not be the true or sole addictive agent in tobacco addiction.

The peanut gallery has just had an eye-opener, thank you IANAN!

[IANAN]

OTD...

My favorite was this one....

Neuropsychopharmacology - A Demonstration of Intravenous Nicotine Self-Administration in Humans?

A substantial body of evidence suggests that individuals' expectancies regarding a substance can significantly affect how they respond to it (eg Montcrieff et al, 2004). The expectancies and, in turn, responses can be influenced to the degree by which participants are able to distinguish between the active drug and placebo based on stimulus properties (eg Testa et al, 2006; Perkins et al, 2003; Greenberg and Fisher, 1994) as well as by a priori knowledge of what substances they may be receiving (eg de la Fuente-Fernandez et al, 2001; Mitchell et al, 1996). Evidence suggests that smokers are able to correctly distinguish between nicotine and inactive placebo on the basis of their subjective effects (eg Hughes et al, 1985) and that they will show an increased preference for a substance that they believe to be nicotine irrespective of whether or not they are actually receiving it (Hughes et al, 1989). It is therefore critical for participants to be adequately blinded to the potential receipt of nicotine in order to adequately evaluate its reinforcing properties.

But yes there is quite some controversy with regards to the addictive properties of nicotine in the absence of tobacco....

From my own experiences and the posted reports of experiences here and the growing body of scientific research on the topic... I would tend to agree that Nicotine alone isn't what is hooking us in.

[a2dcovert]

Thanks IANAN,

I'll have to give that a try. I have about 4 pounds of RYO tobacco sitting around doing nothing. Using everclear as the foundation liquid and mixing with VG/PG the result should be harmess to the atty. If not it should be cleanable by soaking the atty in everclear periodically.

Thanks again,

Kevin

[a2dcovert]

Okay this is how you make a crude extraction (Oh yeah-- don't try this at home these instructions are purely for educational purposes)...

1. Go to the dollar store and purchase a box of cheap teabags for $1 (Unless you happen to have empty teabags laying around).

2. Take some loose tobacco- about the same amount as you would find in a cig, and place it in the teabag.. If you don't have some loose tobacco cut open a cig. Cut open the teabag carefully and dump the tea out- place the tobacco in it and fold the top of the bag like you would a paper airplane then fold the tip over and clip it or staple it, to hold the tobacco in.

3. Place the teabag flat in a pyrex or other heat safe measuring cup or bowl (If you have a double boiler use that).

4. Add a high proof spirit (Vodka or Everclear works better) to cover just above the top of the teabag.

5. Fill a small sauce pan with a bit of water... place on low heat (it should not be boiling).

6. Take your teabag /alcohol solution and place in (measuring cup and all- don't dump the contents of the measuring cup in the water) the warm water on the stove... let it sit there under very low heat for at least 4-6 hours. You want to reduce the liquid in your measuring cup but make sure the water does not boil and you have some spirits-mixture in the cup so that it still flows.

7. You should get a brown liquid from this...

Mix the extract with either your VG or PG... and you have a crude e-liquid extract (Which I might add I am not in any way endorsing that you put that in your PV and inhale).

This is great info. The finished procuct, is there any idea what the nic content is? I think that I should be able to get most of the tobacco ingredience that I need I don't want to get too big a nic hit from this. This new theory (new to me) really seems like the logical next step. I think it will be possible to actually lower the nic content and get the chemicals I am missing.

By the way my favorite tobacco supplier has morphed his web site to include some very new and different "pipe" tobaccos. It's a lot cheaper than the RYO cigarette tobacco is since the new tax has been levied. Here's the link:

Trisha's Cafe-Premium Pipe Cut Tobacco-Pipes-Pipe Cleaners-Tampers-Pouches

The old D&R Tobacco with a new makeover.

Kevin

[kinabaloo]

Ad2Covert - So as not to dilute too much by adding VG after, make the solution to dissolve the tobacco, with mostly VG to begin with. For example, 80% VG, 20% alcohol (ethanol).

Use as little liquid as possible.

The result will be in the 2-6mg / ml range, something like that.