Snus for WTA

[hittman]

(snicker snicker)....Alex, we're gonna have to pitch in and get you something fresher and tastier .



Both, I'd say. Had it not been for the snus I'd be in the former group, not the latter. Funny, TB was one of the prominant posters when I started and he praised the benefits of snus, but I wasn't paying attention. I'm happy I finally caught on, but I'm sure there were and are many like me who didn't or won't cross the snus line.

Me too. If not for the snus, I would most likely be smoking hardcore by now. I am still a little paranoid about the effects of it on my teeth but it is getting me thru the hard times right now.

[rickghouse]

Me too. If not for the snus, I would most likely be smoking hardcore by now. I am still a little paranoid about the effects of it on my teeth but it is getting me thru the hard times right now.

Hi, hittman -

I'm a lot paranoid. Right now I'm using a combination of vaping, Swedish snus and snuff. It's working. None of them work for me solo, so I need all three.

The first time I tried vaping, it got me by for a while. But the effects wore off, and I became desperate for something (other than analogs) to keep me hanging on.

Enter Swedish snus. I started with Thunder Original, and it hit me (the first time) like a ton of bricks. It didn't continue however, and I was left needing more.

Next, snuff. Dholakia Kamal worked wonders at first. Now it's not as much relief. It still hits me fairly hard (head rush, the claws in my chest loosen), but I find I need all three to maintain.

This is a tough road, but I will not go back to analogs (they killed my Dad). I'm eagerly anticipating DVap's Home Brew WTAs, and hopefully at least one of the eliquid manufacturers will pick up on the idea and make it available.

I am keenly aware that snus & snuff are, at best, a reduction of the harm that I am doing to my body. But I'm still doing harm.

Rick.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

I am keenly aware that snus & snuff are, at best, a reduction of the harm that I am doing to my body. But I'm still doing harm.

Rick.

Hey Rick, by no means do I want to sound like a smarta$$, but how do you figure? I can understand if you've previously suffered gum disease, or a long family history of certain cancers.......I'm just curious. I expect to die from heart disease, as did my father and his, but I don't expect snus use to have any bearing. Smoking, absolutely. Cancer has never reared its ugly head in my family tree, but regardless of all the contradictory studies, I might still have some concerns if I felt more susceptible than the average joe. Just wondering .

[SBRFC]

I really liked snus before, but lately i don't like it. Dunno why.

[Stubby]

This is a tough road, but I will not go back to analogs (they killed my Dad). I'm eagerly anticipating DVap's Home Brew WTAs, and hopefully at least one of the eliquid manufacturers will pick up on the idea and make it available.

I am keenly aware that snus & snuff are, at best, a reduction of the harm that I am doing to my body. But I'm still doing harm.

Rick.

Not wanting to sound like a snus & nasal snuff fanboy (though I probably will), but the above statement is misleading at best. Its well excepted that these smokeless tobacco products have at least a 98% reduction in harm compared to smoking. This isn't a guess, but comes from many long range studies dating back to the 60's.

There is no guarantee that a WTA e-liquid could do much better. At best it would be splitting hairs. We don't know the long range effect of inhaling PG/VG, and flavorings that were never meant to be inhaled. To somehow come to the conclusion that vaping is 99.99% less harmful then smoking and much superior to using proven smokeless tobacco products is stretching it beyond where I would care to go.

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Stubby, I think for most it's the horror stories of dip/chew that have left a negative impression on all oral tobacco. I think if Rick reviewed some of the studies his mind would be put to rest.......I think........

[Stubby]

There has been a misinformation campaign against smokeless tobacco for decades. I wouldn't advocate american snuff over snus but even the american style smokeless is a good deal less harmful then smoking. The tobacco prohibitionist, not-for-profit public health advocates, and even the government have done a good job of misleading and scaring the public. Of course they are doing the same thing with PV's.

Unfortunately for the many people for whom PV's don't cut it pushes people back to smoking.

[Skrymr]

I saw this poll a couple weeks ago when I first started snusing, and waited to see how it would work before voting in it.

Snus helps me a lot. I find my cigarette cravings are much fewer and farther between. In fact I have been vaping a lot less. Before snus I felt like my PV was attached to my lips. As long as I was constantly vaping I would do alright. When I couldn't vape, I usually broke down and had a smoke, usually when driving.

Now, when I have a bad craving for a cig I take a pinch of snuff. Fortunately, those cravings are getting less and less every day I snuss. I am looking forward to the day when I snuff solely for the pleasure.

As far as the dangers, I am convinced that what I am doing now is a helluva lot better for me than cigarettes. I know I feel a lot better, physically and mentally.

[rickghouse]

Hey Rick, by no means do I want to sound like a smarta$$, but how do you figure? I can understand if you've previously suffered gum disease, or a long family history of certain cancers.......I'm just curious. I expect to die from heart disease, as did my father and his, but I don't expect snus use to have any bearing. Smoking, absolutely. Cancer has never reared its ugly head in my family tree, but regardless of all the contradictory studies, I might still have some concerns if I felt more susceptible than the average joe. Just wondering .

Hi, TV -

No, you aren't a smarta$$. You're someone who cares, and I appreciate that.

I realize that vaping, snus & snuff are significant harm reduction alternatives to analogs. But harm is still harm.

Right now, I've just finished a vaping session, followed by Swiss chocolate snuff, and I have a General white portion under my lip. I feel good.

I've had my snus and snuff tested. They both contain heavy metals (not surprised, I knew powdered tobacco contains lead) and pesticides (that one surprised me). The human body is not equipped to eliminate heavy metals, and they do lead to a variety of diseases. Pesticides cause Alzheimer’s, Parkinson's and other diseases.

I'm not against snus & snuff. I appreciate them, and welcome the relief. But I view them as stepping stones, starting with reduced harm, and then eventually getting to a place of no harm. I want to live in good health, to a ripe old age.

I hope I've been able to adequately express my concerns!

Rick.

[Stubby]

I've had my snus and snuff tested. They both contain heavy metals (not surprised, I knew powdered tobacco contains lead) and pesticides (that one surprised me). The human body is not equipped to eliminate heavy metals, and they do lead to a variety of diseases. Pesticides cause Alzheimer’s, Parkinson's and other diseases.


Rick.

I have heard heavy metals can be a problem in some smokeless tobacco, but have never heard so in snus. Did a search and found... nothing. Well I did find this, and from all places Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids.

http://www.tobaccofreekids.org/repor...sTestimony.pdf

Not All Smokeless Products Are Alike
UST has continued to market products far higher in one cancer-causing class of agents – nitrosamines - than its counterparts in Sweden, despite the technical ability to produce low nitrosamine products. Data concerning Swedish snus is often cited by UST. Swedish smokeless products are much lower in cancer-causing nitrosamines than U.S. products. Even more disturbing, nitrosamine levels actually rose in one of the two most popular American brands in 2003 after declining in 2002. In addition, the nitrosamine levels of U.S. smokeless products increase once they leave the manufacturing plant and continue to increase the longer they sit on the shelf, in one case by an amazing 137 percent over six months. Swedish snus does not. It is clear that American manufacturers like UST know how to produce low nitrosamine smokeless tobacco products, but have chosen not to do so in their most popular products. Swedish snus is also controlled for heavy metals found in smokeless tobacco products, like cadmium, lead, nickel and chromium, as well as substances such as arsenic, BaP’s, and pesticides. Finally, Sweden forbids the marketing and advertising of all tobacco products while in the United States there are few restrictions on the advertising and marketing of smokeless tobacco products.

I have serious doubts as to your testing, in fact I flat out don't believe it. Snus is very much regulated by the Swedish government for both heavy metal and pesticides.

If you want to live to a ripe old age and feel tobacco is not the way to go, then quit. But please, unless you have more evidence then your word don't give out misinformation. Snus is not harmless, but then e-liquid is not harmless. What we are talking about is relative risk compared to smoking. The difference in risk between e-llquid and snus isn't worth talking about. For those of us unable to quit nicotine/WTA, snus/nasal snuff/stonewalls are the best option we've found to date.

Edit: Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but some of us have been dealing with the misinformation on snus for some time. I get a bit grumpy when things like this show up that go against all known facts. I recently got on someone for stating that snus is linked to colon cancer, which of course it isn't. When you make a statement like you have on a public forum you better have real good information to back it up, and I'm not seeing that.