Nicotine & Alkaloid Data for Smoked & Smokeless Tobacco

**Madame Psychosis** · 01-20-2010, 07:07 PM

I just came upon a paper in my reading that may be of interest to others.

The paper's abstract is here; full text is gated, but I have it as a .pdf for anyone who wants to dig into it.

Jacob et al. Minor tobacco alkaloids as biomarkers for tobacco use: comparison of users of cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, cigars, and pipes. American Journal of Public Health 1999 May;89(5):731-6. PMID:10224986.

The three relevant charts:

(I was surprised to find that the venerable Dr. Alex Shulgin, scientist-hippie guru of entheogens and hallucinogens, was second author.)

I won't comment for now as I'm still digesting it and trying to understand where it might fit with my layman's understanding of a few things.

It only covers four alkaloids -- nicotine, nornicotine, anatabine, anabasine -- but it's the first I've come across to do any side-by-side comparison of different methods of tobacco intake with regard to any of the alkaloids.

**Katmar** · 01-20-2010, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by Madame Psychosis

I just came upon a paper in my reading that may be of interest to others.

The paper's abstract is here; full text is gated, but I have it as a .pdf for anyone who wants to dig into it.

Jacob et al. Minor tobacco alkaloids as biomarkers for tobacco use: comparison of users of cigarettes, smokeless tobacco, cigars, and pipes. American Journal of Public Health 1999 May;89(5):731-6. PMID:10224986.

The three relevant charts:

(I was surprised to find that the venerable Dr. Alex Shulgin, scientist-hippie guru of entheogens and hallucinogens, was second author.)

I won't comment for now as I'm still digesting it and trying to understand where it might fit with my layman's understanding of a few things.

It only covers four alkaloids -- nicotine, nornicotine, anatabine, anabasine -- but it's the first I've come across to do any side-by-side comparison of different methods of tobacco intake with regard to any of the alkaloids.

Madame, this is wonderful. Please write more when you have translated and broken it down to layman's terms!!

**Caesarea** · 01-20-2010, 08:28 PM

I'm sure DVap and the gang will fall on that with glee.

**TWISTED VICTOR** · 01-20-2010, 09:08 PM

Oow Madame, what an exciting find........

..what's it all mean? Nicotine, nornicotine, anatabine and anabasine have all been discussed, but the amounts??? Also, Table 3 "Systemic nicotine intake from tobacco was determined through pharmacokenetic techniques...", I wonder how they actually determined it? ...raising too many questions....room spinning....

**Madame Psychosis** · 01-20-2010, 10:42 PM

Katmar--I'm afraid I mostly posted these for anyone who would be curious for the data, and to link to my rambling over in the Nic absorption from snus thread...
The intriguing part is in comparing tables 1 and 2, and smokeless tobacco versus cigarettes:

Notice how anatabine and anabasine are present in higher %s in cigarette tobacco, but much more of them is excreted by smokeless tobacco users.

I think this has been covered before in other threads, but it basically seems to show that more of these alkaloids are kept intact for consumption in smokeless tobacco (versus burning them off in cigs) and more of them reach the user. Less nic, more of these other alkaloids.

Don't know if this would apply to the MAOIs like norharman as well. Too bad it's just four of them...and doesn't cover snus.

Originally Posted by TWISTED VICTOR

...Also, Table 3 "Systemic nicotine intake from tobacco was determined through pharmacokenetic techniques...", I wonder how they actually determined it?...

(for anyone who's curious...'pharmacokinetics' just means 'what your body does to a drug' - i.e. how your body alters it and gets rid of it.)

My guess? They basically worked backward knowing the usual % of nicotine excreted in the urine and estimated how much nicotine intake that represents. I've heard 2-35% of nicotine is excreted unchanged by the body, but they probably had techniques for more precise estimates.

(Has there been any discussion here of the changes in alkaloid concentrations during the curing of snus? I can't find anything...)

**Katmar** · 01-20-2010, 11:26 PM

Madame,
Thank you for explaining, even though you have done it in another thread.
Guilty of not reading through it all....
Thanks again.

**exogenesis** · 01-21-2010, 12:02 AM

Interesting find Madame Psychosis, does seem to be a significant difference between ciggy tobacco
and snuff (closest to snus ?).

Trouble is I think ciggy tobacco is heavily processed & is effectively reconstituted,
so they can make it contain whatever they like.
Do they deliberately alter the ratios of these alkaloids (and add other stuff) - quite probably.

I think the more 'natural' processes used for smokeless tobacco (for snus at least)
keeps the 'total amount of alkaloids' intact, but there's cross-conversion during the process,
certainly nicotine to nor-nicotine is a known (by e.g. leaf enzymes apparently).

e.g. the table in this post:
Nic absorption with snus

shows some heavy-duty conversion of nicotine to nornicotine dring air-curing,
(not sure I believe that degree tho - may be a table-column error ?),
and the doubling of the content 'other' alkaloids.

This also addresses your last sentence in your 2nd post, but I pretty sure (real) snus aren't fermented,
but but air-cured & steam-pasteurised, wonder what the process is for snuff.

Ratio of 'Nicotine intake in 24hr' to 'Nicotine content' seems to similar in ciggies & snuff,
but as you say a strange huge difference in the excretion to content ratios for the other alkaloid - very interesting.

Would definately be interested in the full pdf if available....

**TWISTED VICTOR** · 01-21-2010, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Madame Psychosis

My guess? They basically worked backward knowing the usual % of nicotine excreted in the urine and estimated how much nicotine intake that represents. I've heard 2-35% of nicotine is excreted unchanged by the body, but they probably had techniques for more precise estimates.

In other words...circular thinking. From all I've read about nic, I haven't seen any hard evidence on how much we actually take in, be it from smoke, vape or smokeless tobacco. exo has as good as anything on his vape testing. As for anything else, it appears to be assumption. So they determine the beginning based on the end......well, I'm lost as usual.....

exo, I knew you'd appreciate Madame's post. It's right up your alley.