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  1. #21
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    JW50, have you looked at the IVAQS study web page? It's here: IVAQS Project

    I'm sorry, but I don't have a good idea of when we will have a report on the results, nor much less as to when we can hope that the study will be actually written up for publication. But the facts as I laid them out above are true - that it was always known that the data collection phase was priced separately from the analysis and publication phase, and that all the required funds for the latter were not in when the data collection phase was started. You can see that laid out right on the IVAQS page I linked to above.

    But I do have personal knowledge of the first data collection run, as I was actually there at the lab for two and a half very long days and two nights. I was invited to be there as an impartial observer essentially, since I have never been a NVC member.

    It was a very laborious process of running 100 puffs of 4 different liquid samples for 3 different times each through a smoking machine, and then into a collection bag, within which were numerous filters for specified toxicants and compounds. The same process (100 puffs 3 different times) was also carried out with actual cigarettes, and with plain air as a control. The various filters were then tested by more than one scientist in different labs. The raw results, which I have also seen for that first round of data collection, is expressed as quantity per filter per indivdual run of 100 puffs of all the specified compounds being tested for. Of course those numbers are pretty meaningless without context - so all the data has to be analyzed by an air quality expert, as the whole purpose of the study is to determine what and to what extent, if anything, bystanders would be exposed to in indoor spaces where ecigs are being used. Those raw numbers have to be interpolated into a meaningful amount per cubic meter in rooms of given sizes of the tested for compounds, and compared, for example, to the results from existing studies of second hand smoke and other well known sources of indoor air contaminents.

    The second data collection run, that I did not witness but have no doubt did take place, was just that - a second run of all the smoke machine puffing and collecting done the first time, with the same 4 different eliquids, cigarettes and plain air.

    I hope that helps.
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    In case anyone's wondering WHY I still have the SD as my sig, it's because I got my first ecig in January 2008 but still smoked for 10 months, until I got my first SD. I have other APVs, but also still love and use my SD (with a Bulli on top). I will be forever grateful to Trog for saving my life!

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvilla View Post
    JW50, have you looked at the IVAQS study web page? It's here: IVAQS Project

    I'm sorry, but I don't have a good idea of when we will have a report on the results, nor much less as to when we can hope that the study will be actually written up for publication. But the facts as I laid them out above are true - that it was always known that the data collection phase was priced separately from the analysis and publication phase, and that all the required funds for the latter were not in when the data collection phase was started. You can see that laid out right on the IVAQS page I linked to above.

    But I do have personal knowledge of the first data collection run, as I was actually there at the lab for two and a half very long days and two nights. I was invited to be there as an impartial observer essentially, since I have never been a NVC member.

    It was a very laborious process of running 100 puffs of 4 different liquid samples for 3 different times each through a smoking machine, and then into a collection bag, within which were numerous filters for specified toxicants and compounds. The same process (100 puffs 3 different times) was also carried out with actual cigarettes, and with plain air as a control. The various filters were then tested by more than one scientist in different labs. The raw results, which I have also seen for that first round of data collection, is expressed as quantity per filter per indivdual run of 100 puffs of all the specified compounds being tested for. Of course those numbers are pretty meaningless without context - so all the data has to be analyzed by an air quality expert, as the whole purpose of the study is to determine what and to what extent, if anything, bystanders would be exposed to in indoor spaces where ecigs are being used. Those raw numbers have to be interpolated into a meaningful amount per cubic meter in rooms of given sizes of the tested for compounds, and compared, for example, to the results from existing studies of second hand smoke and other well known sources of indoor air contaminents.

    The second data collection run, that I did not witness but have no doubt did take place, was just that - a second run of all the smoke machine puffing and collecting done the first time, with the same 4 different eliquids, cigarettes and plain air.

    I hope that helps.
    It helps a lot. Thanks.

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    There is SO much more to this story people. There are good reasons why many of us veterans have ceased support for NVC and IVAQS. Unfortunately it is all posted on VF in the NVC sub forum, which is not allowed to be linked here. I think people should do research before deciding whether to support this project and the organization running it. End of rant!

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    Quote Originally Posted by laurel099 View Post
    There is SO much more to this story people.
    Unfortunately yes. That "more" is a lot of hatred and spite among and between individuals and groups - some of it going way back, even before IVAQS itself was conceived.

    I was never involved in that, and am not involved now. But in my personal opinion, the opportunity to obtain and hopefully publish objective scientific data on vapor in indoor spaces is magnitudes more important than any personal issues ever could be, and it's a tragedy that such issues are interfering, and possibly sounding the death knoll, for this project.

    In case anyone's wondering WHY I still have the SD as my sig, it's because I got my first ecig in January 2008 but still smoked for 10 months, until I got my first SD. I have other APVs, but also still love and use my SD (with a Bulli on top). I will be forever grateful to Trog for saving my life!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by yvilla View Post
    Unfortunately yes. That "more" is a lot of hatred and spite among and between individuals and groups - some of it going way back, even before IVAQS itself was conceived.

    I was never involved in that, and am not involved now. But in my personal opinion, the opportunity to obtain and hopefully publish objective scientific data on vapor in indoor spaces is magnitudes more important than any personal issues ever could be, and it's a tragedy that such issues are interfering, and possibly sounding the death knoll, for this project.
    It's not all about personal issues, Yolanda. There are some people who have very legitimate concerns about IVAQS and NVC and much (although not all) of the criticism is justified, imo.

    It's a shame that a project that began with such widespread community support and enthusiasm has degenerated to something so fraught with controversy.

    I have no doubt that the funds collected for IVAQS were spent on IVAQS. In that respect, at least, I do not believe that anyone has been "taken." However, I think that the way the project has been run is unprofessional and ultimately will make its findings less credible . . . assuming the money is raised to finish this . . . and that's a big "if."

    Regarding the decision to begin IVAQS without having secured full funding, not everyone was in support of that. In fact, some of us were quite vocal in our fears that substantial funds would be put at risk if not enough money were raised to finish the project. It appears that after more than a year of fundraising, only 2/3 of the funds have been raised.

    With 3 of the 5 NVC board members having resigned, I wonder what effect the lack of internal stability of the organization will have on its ability to command the trust and respect of the community from which it seeks support.

    In any event, I am glad that CASAA is no longer officially supporting IVAQS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JustJulie View Post
    It's not all about personal issues, Yolanda.


    In any event, I am glad that CASAA is no longer officially supporting IVAQS.
    Why is it that CASAA no longer officially supports IVAQS? I feel confident it is not because the research is not desired. Or is it? Bad raw data? Are the researchers not competent? Several thousand spent for the raw data - it is not worthwhile to spend a bit more to get to a meaningful report?

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    "In any event, I am glad that CASAA is no longer officially supporting IVAQS."

    I can't imagine CASAA not supporting a vapor study, but suspect it's the group behind the study they can't support. I wonder how, in the spirit of cooperation and in the interest of furthering our knowledge, CASAA could take "over" the study, or find a way to discuss their differences with NVC and WORK IT OUT will ya! What a shame to have come part way with this important study.

    Other than that I have no strong feelings!
    Welcome to the World of Vaping!

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    JW50, I was distressed when I saw that part of Julie's post too, but had to wait to respond, as I did not want to allow my immediate reaction to cause me to post intemperately.

    CASAA was never "officially" a partner or sponsor of the IVAQS study. If Julie simply meant she is glad that CASAA is no longer collecting donations for IVAQS, well it is correct, we stopped that a while back. However, when we stopped that, we did point people directly to the IVAQS site to make donations if they wished to financially support the study.

    However, if Julie meant that someone in CASAA is giving the impression that CASAA has "offically" disavowed IVAQS, or is "offically" trashing it the way some are, both here and on other forums, as opposed to the expression of individual opinions, well then it's news to me.

    And perhaps my position on the CASAA board has not much time left. I will not be a party to such damaging and hateful "warring" between indivduals and groups in the ecig community.
    Last edited by yvilla; 06-08-2011 at 08:16 PM.

    In case anyone's wondering WHY I still have the SD as my sig, it's because I got my first ecig in January 2008 but still smoked for 10 months, until I got my first SD. I have other APVs, but also still love and use my SD (with a Bulli on top). I will be forever grateful to Trog for saving my life!

  9. #29
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    CASAA is no longer collecting funds for IVAQS nor is it suggesting people donate to support it. In my mind, that means it is no longer "supporting" IVAQS. By the same token, I am not aware that CASAA has taken a position denouncing IVAQS.

    To suggest that concerns associated with IVAQS are primarily driven by petty personal differences does the community a grave disservice, imo.
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    CASAA took a close look at our own organization's finances late last fall and decided that we might be trying to accomplish too much with too little. The board voted to set aside the pursuit of any research efforts at this point and focus our efforts on working to keep the sale and indoor use of e-cigarettes legal.


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