How bout this design for a cartridge... - Page 2 - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

yo han · 11-04-2008, 01:07 AM

Yup, that's been done also.
You can buy very fine wire mesh (pretty expensive stuff though). Actually it's the same stuff as used in the atomizer. I remember someone made a cartridge where he replaced the cotton with this wire mesh (rolled into a tube). At the bottom of the cartridge was a piece of spring from a pen which pushed the mesh against the atomizer bridge. Worked pretty well as I recall. I'll see if I can dig up that post on a Dutch forum somewhere

Ha, found it sooner than I thought:
Post translated to English
Notice that the mesh and spring take up so much space in the cartridge that he could only fill it with half the amount of liquid compared to cotton.

yo han · 11-04-2008, 01:31 AM

Drat! Too late to edit the previous post. The last sentence wasn't correct, I was reading the wrong part about cartridge content. It seems it could hold as much liquid as with cotton after all.

dc2k08 · 11-04-2008, 01:31 AM

very clever yo han! but i dont understand what he was doing with the loong ampoules.

mcastles · 11-04-2008, 01:36 AM

Worked really well on my dse801, I really like the way the pen model has a heat chamber.

yo han · 11-04-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dc2k08

very clever yo han! but i dont understand what he was doing with the loong ampoules.

I'm not sure either. I think he used that because it's an atomizer + cartridge in one piece. The original M401 atomizer and cartridge probably didn't leave enough room to experiment with.

dablackanarch · 11-04-2008, 06:36 PM

I've had the idea that instead of the current carts, we could have pressurized carts with a small nozzle on the end that releases the contents in a pre-vaporized fashion. Along with an atomizer that heats up very quickly, you could eliminate the burning taste, have a very smooth smoke and no fluid in the mouth due to the e-smoke juice being almost completely vaporized, even before it hits the heating element.

One way to do this would be to put the pressurized cart before the atomizer and give it a press toward the battery before you inhale. You would press the atomizer/cart assembly toward the battery to spray a dose of e-fluid into the atomizer. Then press the manual battery switch and inhale.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about:

Here's the facts. If e-smoking is going to be effective (especially for heavy smokers) we need standards. Metered doses, High performance batteries and better atomizer life will just make things much better for e-smokers and e-smoking in general. I don't want a disposable e-smoke device. I want a high quality one that lasts. I've also got some ideas on atomizer design that I think will work well too. I'll post those under the proper topic.

Edit: For drippers, perhaps a cart design that uses the same functionality as the pressurized one but, instead of a self-contained pressurized cart, perhaps a refillable cart that uses manual pumping to create the needed pressure for the dose.

PuffnStuff · 11-07-2008, 10:04 PM

Well had thought about a similar idea here (and by similar I mean exactly the same idea). I sat down and spent some time making a crappy diagram to explain the idea and when I showed up here to post the idea I see someone beat me to the punch a long time ago.

Since I don't want the effort of my diagram to go to waste, here is my crappy diagram (this may require a little imagination but I just didn't have enough time to get too fancy)....

Somoney · 11-08-2008, 03:47 AM

There is a delicate dance of liquid that occurs between the cartridge and the atomizer itself. The poly sponge material is ment to keep the atomizing ring as wet as the sponge touching it. The atomizer heats, drys, and the exchange is repeated.

When we manually drip, there is no sponge to hold the excess so it drops to the breath holes. I see no way to efficiently change this method of liquid transfer without that sponge.

PuffnStuff, you diagram is great. it would be most effective if you had a way for the liquid to touch the atomizer directly though. this desgn can drip along the walls, or if upsode down, through the mouth piece. Is it is now, you still need a sponge to transfer your drip to the atomizer.

If I may,

SuperSteph · 11-08-2008, 06:02 AM

I think the best way to achieve this would be a piezo-electric pump, much in the same way that an inkjet works. A small piezo element would vibrate, pushing liquid past a small one way valve or diaphram that could spray a fine mist, much in the same way an inkjet deposits ink on paper, but instead of paper, it would be an atomizer. this would provide precise control. the other way would be to use a small button that pushes a diaphram which acts like a manual pump instead. not as much control, but loads simpler in design.

PuffnStuff · 11-08-2008, 07:17 AM

Well Somoney that sponge design does not get us past the sponge so errant fibers and similar sponge related problems would still be there. Yet it is at least a shorter sponge.

I've noticed in current designs you fill a sponge and it needs to be refilled after so many puffs but the end of the sponge closest to your mouth is still wet. So at least your diagram would make a more efficient sponge and a suspended bottle would probably hold more e-liq without as much mess.

I think it's definitely a step in the right direction, I just don't know enough about the science to figure a way around that sponge.

11-04-2008, 01:07 AM	#11
yo han ECF Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 181	Yup, that's been done also. You can buy very fine wire mesh (pretty expensive stuff though). Actually it's the same stuff as used in the atomizer. I remember someone made a cartridge where he replaced the cotton with this wire mesh (rolled into a tube). At the bottom of the cartridge was a piece of spring from a pen which pushed the mesh against the atomizer bridge. Worked pretty well as I recall. I'll see if I can dig up that post on a Dutch forum somewhere Ha, found it sooner than I thought: Post translated to English Notice that the mesh and spring take up so much space in the cartridge that he could only fill it with half the amount of liquid compared to cotton. Last edited by yo han; 11-04-2008 at 01:15 AM.

11-04-2008, 06:36 PM	#16
dablackanarch Full Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Seattle, USA Posts: 74	I've had the idea that instead of the current carts, we could have pressurized carts with a small nozzle on the end that releases the contents in a pre-vaporized fashion. Along with an atomizer that heats up very quickly, you could eliminate the burning taste, have a very smooth smoke and no fluid in the mouth due to the e-smoke juice being almost completely vaporized, even before it hits the heating element. One way to do this would be to put the pressurized cart before the atomizer and give it a press toward the battery before you inhale. You would press the atomizer/cart assembly toward the battery to spray a dose of e-fluid into the atomizer. Then press the manual battery switch and inhale. Here's an example of what I'm talking about: Here's the facts. If e-smoking is going to be effective (especially for heavy smokers) we need standards. Metered doses, High performance batteries and better atomizer life will just make things much better for e-smokers and e-smoking in general. I don't want a disposable e-smoke device. I want a high quality one that lasts. I've also got some ideas on atomizer design that I think will work well too. I'll post those under the proper topic. Edit: For drippers, perhaps a cart design that uses the same functionality as the pressurized one but, instead of a self-contained pressurized cart, perhaps a refillable cart that uses manual pumping to create the needed pressure for the dose. Last edited by dablackanarch; 11-04-2008 at 06:39 PM. Reason: New info

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11-04-2008, 01:31 AM	#12
yo han ECF Veteran Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Netherlands Posts: 181	Drat! Too late to edit the previous post. The last sentence wasn't correct, I was reading the wrong part about cartridge content. It seems it could hold as much liquid as with cotton after all.

11-04-2008, 01:31 AM	#13
dc2k08 4mer 4um Addict Join Date: May 2008 Location: .ie Posts: 1,815 Tweet this post!	very clever yo han! but i dont understand what he was doing with the loong ampoules.

11-04-2008, 01:36 AM	#14
mcastles Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 27	Worked really well on my dse801, I really like the way the pen model has a heat chamber.

11-08-2008, 06:02 AM	#19
SuperSteph Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: California, USA Posts: 73	I think the best way to achieve this would be a piezo-electric pump, much in the same way that an inkjet works. A small piezo element would vibrate, pushing liquid past a small one way valve or diaphram that could spray a fine mist, much in the same way an inkjet deposits ink on paper, but instead of paper, it would be an atomizer. this would provide precise control. the other way would be to use a small button that pushes a diaphram which acts like a manual pump instead. not as much control, but loads simpler in design.

11-08-2008, 07:17 AM	#20
PuffnStuff Full Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: La Verne, California (US) Posts: 30	Well Somoney that sponge design does not get us past the sponge so errant fibers and similar sponge related problems would still be there. Yet it is at least a shorter sponge. I've noticed in current designs you fill a sponge and it needs to be refilled after so many puffs but the end of the sponge closest to your mouth is still wet. So at least your diagram would make a more efficient sponge and a suspended bottle would probably hold more e-liq without as much mess. I think it's definitely a step in the right direction, I just don't know enough about the science to figure a way around that sponge.