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Thread: Types of nicotine base liquid

  1. #11
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    Even more interesting would be to see what is the mix post-heating/vaporisation. That's where potentially harmful stuff might show up.

    Pass through a carto and condense the resultant vapor; compare with liquid-in.

    Then again, one can see why those in the industry might not want to go there.
    Last edited by kinabaloo; 11-29-2011 at 04:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinabaloo View Post
    Even more interesting would be to see what is the mix post-heating/vaporisation. That's where potentially harmful stuff might show up.

    Pass through a carto and condense the resultant vapor; compare with liquid-in.

    Then again, one can see why those in the industry might not want to go there.
    Such a study has been done, poorly I might add - as the device was activated in an un natural position.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldsoldier View Post
    Such a study has been done, poorly I might add - as the device was activated in an un natural position.
    Is that the Flavourart study? I think the subsequent tests showed the excessive puff count (120 puffs from a standard 510 cartridge) may have compromised it more. Repeated with 50 puffs on one flavour they got completely different results. See notes towards the bottom - Protocollo ClearStream - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi
    kinabaloo likes this.

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    There have been a few studies but they all had major weaknesses.

    I am hoping, and half-expect that the toxins found (I'm sure there will be some) will be at insignificant levels; but I've not seen a convincing study so far to provide real evidence one way ot the other.

    Flavorings and additives such as acids and sweeteners will be the main source of concern (if any).

    People worry about trace extraction xhemicals and such but don't realise the big difference between solubility and vaporisation, digestion and inhalation.

    The concerns are :

    1) what toxins might be created by the heating

    2) what hazards are presented by inhaling the constituents (whether vaporised cleanly, thermal decomposition products or non-vaporisable constituents misted into the vapor)

    Until we know more, the advice must be inhale into the lungs as less as possible*. I would suggest also avoiding addd sweeteners (though ethyl malto is ok, afaik), colors, acids; and anything that looks dark. If a liquid causes cartos to lose performance/die early - that's a bad sign.

    There probably are not any big dangers in vaping (but we can't say for sure), but even minor ones could be significant if repeated day after day.

    * even as regards VG and PG this is wise i think.
    Last edited by kinabaloo; 11-30-2011 at 10:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa Lazarou View Post
    Is that the Flavourart study? I think the subsequent tests showed the excessive puff count (120 puffs from a standard 510 cartridge) may have compromised it more. Repeated with 50 puffs on one flavour they got completely different results. See notes towards the bottom - Protocollo ClearStream - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi
    Good point - always keep your vaprisation element moist.

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    Happy I found this sub-forum - while still a really newbie noob, I am enjoying these chemical discussions way more than I ever enjoyed chemistry in school :-). So much that I'm seriously considering digging up my old high school books or maybe trying to find some actual chemistry textbooks...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
    Pink-rose color is something that was discussed in one of the techie forums here quite a while ago. We don't know what it is from, but I am almost certain it is a colored complex (loosely associated compounds with each other) of nic-oxides with VG or some flavor.
    I recently bought 3 different nic-strengths of a flavoured Hangsen liquid (from Liberty Flights, I don't know if they mix from Hangsen concentrates or buy liquid ready mixed to strength from China).
    The strengths were 0mg/ml, 14mg/ml and 24mg/ml.

    The strongest was very pink, the 0mg was totally clear. The 14mg in between.

    My first thought was that the pink was actually a safety precaution, added to make it easy to identify nic-strength (and crucially zero nic - you would NOT want to ship nic liquid to a customer ordering no-nics!) by sight.

    Naturally I have no idea what the colourant might be, but seeing these three small bottles (same flavour) side by side my thoughts immediately went to the use of things to colour or smell-ify things like cooking gas, gasoline, various non-drinkable alcohols etc.
    The pink is also *very* potent (I mixed some of the 24mg with colourless base and the colourless no-nic liquid).

    If this is a deliberate thing, I actually wouldn't mind such an indicator in my base nic. Would be very practical to be able to distinguish the strength of my mixes just by looking at the colour of the liquid (I don't always want the same nic strength).


    Can I ask a stupid question? Well, I will anyway...

    When nicotine oxidizes and takes on that yellowish tinge, does that mean that the oxidized part of the nic is no longer available for the body to absorb? IE that the *effective* nicotine strength of the solution is diminished?

    And a bit related (yes, I'm having trouble hitting the Post-button already): I am guessing that this yellowing is at least a little bit related to the yellowing of wallpapers etc in rooms where there has been a lot of smoking, and the "nicotine yellow" fingers (and sometimes moustasches) that some old heavy smokers seem to get?

    Lots of that is probably from tar, not nicotine. But back when I used an airpurifier that required regular cleaning in my smoking room (now I use a small ozone machine instead - yes I know the dangers, yes I am careful! no, I don't run it all the time! - which is much better and works on virtually *any* smells), the gunk I would wash out of the electrostatic-filter could be roughly divided into three parts:
    - miscellanous particles (dust and pollen),
    - black particles (sometimes quite large, and also present if I hadn't been home and smoking, so seems to also have been from traffic outside (first floor, busy street, window often open)), and
    - brown very smelly stuff - no particles large enough to be seen with the naked eye.

    Now when I have handled a nic base-liquid (only 36mg/ml), I would say that the smell of the nasty brown "soup" was not only "particularly nasty old tobacco", but actually had a strong component of that "wet dog" or "fishy" odour of nicotine. (This is such an *interesting* smell/taste IMO. I have a really hard time picking it out of (cured, cigarette) tobacco but suspect it is there. Trying to sniff an ashtray for it mostly makes me confused - I should have some non-cigarette ashes to compare with to be able to say for sure*.)

    Oh, that's another question: How does oxidation affect the smell of nicotine?
    (I guess I could actually test that one fairly easily by putting a small amount of my base liquid on a saucer and into a cupboard with my ozone generator for a few hours.)

    P.S. Dear Mods, I hope I am not too far off topic here. In my defense I would like to say that learning and understanding about the chemistry of nicotine and e-liquids, and easily visible and smellable indicators in general is VERY important for QC in the home.


    (* I have a freakish sense of smell; a major contributing factor to my smoking so much for so long. The first week vaping and just cutting down to "only" 10 cigs a day was absolute torture smell-wise, and between this problem and the other nice stuff in tobacco (WTAs), I wonder if I will ever totally quit. I truly do not understand people who *want* a better sense of smell; it is true that it is a sense that habituates fast, but in a shopping mall or on the bus or the street that doesn't really help because new smells are coming at you all the time. So I may sound as weird as I actually am, but I do try to utilize this handicap and make something interesting of it - hence the wacky ideas of comparing smells of different ashes...)
    Last edited by Tona Aspsusa; 01-04-2012 at 12:50 PM. Reason: typos and grammar, and forgot a para at the end

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick O'Teen View Post
    Vanillin makes juices pink at the drop of a hat!
    Now this is extremely interesting, but makes my observation about the Hangsen liquid being clear at zero nic but very pink at 24mg/ml quite confusing. The flavour in question is a tobacco flavour (D'Doff), but it does have very clearly "taste-able" components of dried fruit, chocolate and vanilla.

    Or do you mean with the above that vanillin in combination with nicotine makes juices pink? Hmm, I could actually test this: if I mix a few drops of colourless Hangsen flavour with a colourless (or close to it) nic base and it turns pink...

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    Tona, vanillin is only one culprit to said color changes and it is not restricted to doing so only when mixed with nic If a component of a flavoring changes color, it will generally do so without being mixed with other components, though I'm sure there are also combinations of components that can cause a more significant change in color than any of the individual chemicals by themselves. Of course, I have no examples for you on that last statement, just a possibility
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    Oh, and one thing I can suggest for why your three liquids are different colors is perhaps they aren't all the same age or one the pink one may not be sealed quite as well, allowing it more exposure to oxygen
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    Thx, Killjoy1.

    I did go ahead and mixed a bit of the uncoloured no-nic juice with my own 84/16 PG/VG 13mg/ml nicced juice, and absolutely nothing happened (except eventually a very pleasant vape ). I let the mix (2-3 drops of the no-nic mixed with 1.5ml of my unflavoured base in a clear syringe, no extra air inside it) rest in a well lit place for about 2 hours, no change in colour from the very very faint yellowish tinge my base naturally has.

    So no vanillin (if one wanted to use vanillin in DIY flavourings (which I might well want to, since I am one of the weirdoes that actually prefer vanillin-flavoured "vanilla sugar" to the genuine thing), what would be the best form to buy it in?) in that flavour.

    I would still tend to believe that this pink is deliberate.

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