E-Cigs are really looked down upon by recent quitters.

[PTJD]

Vocalek, I see your trying to make head way there, I don't think its gonna work. You have been branded a "Dealer" over there, should we change you to supplier status here?
Look if that was a weight loss forum, and I was 70lbs over weight and dropped 60lbs, they would all be happy for me. For some reason that forum has you as a failure until you drop that last 10lbs. Thats how I equate Vaping to, yeah maybe not quite as healthy as a total non-smoker but I sure would rather be 10lbs overweight than 70lbs!

[Vocalek]

...big tobacco has made my case for me.

Sammy quoted a BT document:

...if we are to attract the non-smoker or pre-smoker, there is nothing in this type of product that he would currently understand or desire. We have deliberately played down the role of nicotine, hence the non-smoker has little or no knowledge of what satisfactions it may offer him, and no desire to try it. Instead, we somehow must convince him with wholly irrational reasons that he should try smoking, in the hope that he will for himself then discover the real 'satisfactions' obtainable.

That's exactly right! The non-smoker (or "pre-smoker") has no idea that nicotine is beneficial. The world has been brainwashed into thinking that it is nicotine that causes the smoking-related diseases.

Kids don't start smoking because they want to experience nicotine. They start smoking because their "cool" friends are doing it.

The PV does not look "cool". Even adults think it is "dorky" to use a "fake cigarette." So the chances that this product will addict new users are extremely slim.

As for serving as a gateway to tobacco smoking:

Assuming that the PV remains available, why would anyone in their right mind want to switch to tobacco cigarettes? "Gee, I'm getting all the nicotine I need from PVs, but I want to inhale real smoke, stink, be kicked outside into the cold, gunk up my lungs, and get cancer! Yeah, gimme some of that!"

If the PV becomes unavailable, tragically, many users will be forced to switch back to the only adequate source of nicotine: tobacco.

[LaceyUnderall]

Originally Posted by BenJammin

I think that what the Cold Turkeys really resent is our relatively painless transition. We invalidate the "nobility" of their suffering, showing it to be unnecessary. They have to maintain their aggressive stance on nicotine to keep themselves "on the straight and narrow" and to save face. It's like that hateful personal trainer chick on "The Biggest Loser." You would think she would be more empathetic because she used to be Biggie-Size herself. Fat chance. You hate most in others what you fear most in yourself. The hostile ex-smokers are not Nazis. They are just suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.
... I just tell them that now they have a better option if ever they fall off the wagon... Quitting smoking is the easiest thing in the world to do, I've done it dozens of times. Staying Quit, now that's the hardest thing. The consensus at work is: "Congratulations! Do whatever works for you."

Ben - I just wanted to say that this is extremely insightful and I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thank you!

[sherid]

Originally Posted by Samalie0

If you want to flame me incessantly, I'll understand

I'm one of the militant assholes on the forum you linked to, that quit the hard way as you like to put it.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the PV, or e-cig, or whatever terminology we wish to use, not because I don't think it can be successfully used to quit smoking, but because of the attitude that some PV'ers have displayed on our forums.

Despite our url and name "QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com", we really are a site that advocates the freedom from nicotine, not just no longer smoking analogs. And yes, we do accept NRT as a method of quitting, providing of course that the intention is to get off the NRT eventually. We are not the Freedom boards who advocate that cold turkey is the ONLY way to go.

But getting back on topic, we've seen most people who advocate the PV's to be advocating them as a replacement to analog, as opposed to actually getting off nicotine as a whole. We're not a bunch of bitter bastards who are angry because we've deprived ourselves of nicotine...we're a bunch of joyous bastards because we're free.

I've read this thread, and I'd be interested to know the results of any study comparing other quit methods with PV's...although I don't think that the rates of PV's will be any better than other forms of NRT. I think they'll show similar numbers to NRT for going back to analogs, and similar numbers of people who aren't smoking but addicted to the NRT.

For our quit smoking home, we don't see the choice to change the nicotine delivery method to be any different from still smoking. Yes, its healthier than an analog (or at least probably is), but it doesn't fit into our beliefs of freedom from nicotine.

If anyone thinks I'm being disrespectful, I do apologise in advance...I'm not trying to come into your "home" and tell you that you guys all suck and that our way is the way you have to go...I'm just trying to help anyone that cares to understand why the e-cig evangelists tend to be bashed around in our forums. And as I stated in the beginning, if you want to bash me around, please feel free...I've got think skin

Good luck all, and I hope that everyone here who wishes to will remain free from analogs, and someday be free from nicotine too.

Sammy

I have been free of intentionally inhaling dangerous chemicals and addictive poisons for 8 Months, 4 Weeks, 1 Day, 16 hours and 18 minutes (271 days). I have avoided using 4,075 nicotine delivery devices, giving me an extra $1,740.76 to enjoy 2 Weeks, 3 hours and 35 minutes of life I would not have had.

Did the deprivation of nicotine make you lose your ability to read and comprehend. E cigs are a cigarette alternative, not a cessation product. We like smoking, an we like nicotine. We have simply switched brands. Other than preaching the gospel of anti smoking/nicotine, what is your purpose here? You have decided to go one way. We have decided to go another way. Enjoy your freedom from nicotine, but it should be clear by now that most of us are not into that. If we were, we would be posting on your board. Have a nice day.

[Vocalek]

Effective Advocacy

Sherid: Sammy came here because some of us DID post on her forum. She asked some insightful questions and hopefully she understands our position a little better now.

Both forums have something in common: A desire to rid ourselves of the harmful effects of tobacco smoke. We simply have opposite approaches to the problem.

Sammy and her friends believe that total nicotine abstinence is the only way. Most of our members believe that people who want or need nicotine should have the right to obtain it without sacrificing their physical health.

What is needed is a forum where anyone can be supported, regardless of their chosen method of quitting.

[Maz917]

Without jumping into this debate I just want to say that I actually saw this thread on the QSMB FIRST.
I was researching ways to quit smoking and was lurking thru this message board when this thread popped up.

I had never even heard of an e-cig before this thread !

I'm no expert on anything. I just started vaping yesterday. Today is my first day with no anaologs.
and btw - I am not finding it an easy fix. (It is still not easy for me to not smoke an anolog but I am finally doing it and actually excited about it )

I am just finding it an interesting debate and both sides have very valid points.

I do think it extremely interesting that if I didn't lurk thru this site that i may never have known what an e-cig is !
( i think that's what many on that QSMB were worried about and why they locked the thread )

[trog100]

the most effective way to quit an addiction is to build up some kind of irrational hatred to the thing you are trying to quit and anything even vaguely associated with it...

to them an e cig is just another form of smoking and equally addictive.. which makes it equally as bad.. lots of people will take this stance not just ex smokers or those trying to quit for real..

its just the make they have to be.. haters of smoking and anything vaguely connected to it.. i doubt they will ever be on our side..

trog

[ALUCARD]

Originally Posted by sattec

well what do you expect? These folks are trying to quit the hard way, they're pissed off...too bad their minds are closed but you meet ALL KINDS on the internet, you can't save everybody ( from themselves). Oh don't get me wrong, many of us may end up more addicted to nic than ever before, not me. I just need some help to get the cig monkey off my back then "turn down" the juice strength and I'm finished with nic forever! 6 months to a year at the outside, I've already amazed myself by walking away from cigs, there's no stopping me now! Do you think a bunch of pissed off ex smokers sitting around chewing their gum can really support each other the way we do here? no way. This board rocks, the power to quit is right here people! Take advantage of it, network with somebody here when you consider going back to cigs, we can help you.

My thoughts exactly.

[P3rplexity]

Originally Posted by Maz917

Without jumping into this debate I just want to say that I actually saw this thread on the QSMB FIRST.
I was researching ways to quit smoking and was lurking thru this message board when this thread popped up.

I had never even heard of an e-cig before this thread !

I'm no expert on anything. I just started vaping yesterday. Today is my first day with no anaologs.
and btw - I am not finding it an easy fix. (It is still not easy for me to not smoke an anolog but I am finally doing it and actually excited about it )

I am just finding it an interesting debate and both sides have very valid points.

I do think it extremely interesting that if I didn't lurk thru this site that i may never have known what an e-cig is !
( i think that's what many on that QSMB were worried about and why they locked the thread )

I found mine an easy fix, haven't smoked, nor wanted to smoke, an analog since I got my kit in the mail. What kind of PV are you using? That has alot to do with it.


On topic.... Wow, I can't believe how pompous some people are, and ignorant.

What is this rubbish about quitting your addiction to nicotine? Nicotine has a lot health benefits, there have been many studies proving that. I could see how some may say "I don't want to be a slave to my addiction" but come on! They really need to wake up, cigarettes are bad, nicotine is not, it's not quantum physics.

A few benefits to nicotine:http://www.forces.org/evidence/hamil...r/nicotine.htm

I actually looked up addiction from an online dictionary, and I have a real problem with the first definition. An addiction is NOT synonymous with a controlled substance.

1. a. Compulsive physiological and psychological need for a habit-forming substance: a drug used in the treatment of heroin addiction.
b. An instance of this: a person with multiple chemical addictions.

2. a. The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.
b. An instance of this: had an addiction for fast cars.

The second definition is closer to the correct meaning. An addiction isn't always a bad thing, but upon hearing the word many people already have their minds made up. People are addicted to riding bikes, running, dieting, working out, etc etc. Does the addiction make the person who is addicted a bad person? Of course not!

Sorry to ramble but some people's mindsets just really annoy me. They think they know how to educate us yet because they cannot intelligently debate they just build up a pool of blind hatred, it's honestly very sad.

[snus man]

Has any one tried quitting smoking with nicotine and tobacco free snus? Haven’t tried it myself but I have heard a lot about it. nicotinefreesnus.com