Review of V4L
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  1. #1
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    Exclamation Review of V4L

    Keeping in accordance with Elendil's posting guidelines,(http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...post-here.html) this review is only based on V4L's:

    1. Shipping speed
    2. Return policy
    3. Communication
    4. and the like.


    from an objective and comparative point of view over 3 months time.

    1. Shipping speed

    More often than not, every order ships within 3 business days. V4L does not assist consumers equally on lost or delayed orders.

    2. Return policy

    V4L's return policy does not match what is on their website. While this can often make them a far more attractive, compassionate and understanding company, it also causes mixed messages. Instead of being addressed my recent experience has shown me V4L handles consumer confusion over verbal agreements(made because "we haven't updated our return policy yet") with compounded double-talk(mixed messages), avoidance, personal insults, etc. They seem to only keep their word if they feel like it and after they convince you to not pay attention to their to be updated 'policy'. iow, when you take them at their word about their policy not being inflexible, they use their verbal policy to delay doing anything until the warranty wears out, get all sympathetic about after the fact but, ultimately do not adequately follow through. They don't honor their 72hr wrong product policy when they make the mistake more than once, instead using 'bonuses' as replacements and defaming a person after killing the fun they say the bonuses are intended for, as an 'ungrateful' customer (again to keep things clean here) They push for thank-you's when you have a serious issue, rather than correct the problem. (see next).


    3. Communication

    CS in any business is there to field complaints. During the 1st couple months the majority of any email to their team was related to website problems when ordering and they handled those e-mails very well.

    My major concern was that I didn't get the kit I ordered. During that process, one of the best CS reps left V4L. The new rep, instead of shipping the kit as ordered, items in the kit were individually replaced with bonus cartos. However, 3 months later, non-functional part after non-functional part, not all items were replaced. I was told I was being 'silly' to 'petty' (to keep the language clean here) to even care about color choices. From that point forward, any problem I had was reduced to how much trouble they went to to replace the kit, which again, they didn't completely do but, as if they did.

    I was told by the company owner/investor it was, in his opinion, 'weird' that I purchased only 1 kit, showing enormous confidence in V4L's products that are promoted with a longer lifespan, given a written personal promise w/ his cell # that he would discuss this and a DOA product purchased & less than a month old, that he did not follow through on because he was in meetings. No further attempt was made by him to follow through and there was no response to a direct e-mail by myself to him about this either.

    CS has informed me they would extend an exception by fixing my first order, correcting the DOA new separately purchased product and correcting items their packing department shipped that I didn't order, with no notice to me that they were picking some things based on guesswork I'd like them when items ordered were out of stock. That verbal agreement changed to their blaming me, telling me (a 2+ pk/day smoker(I started vaping on a different PV before finding V4L) I didn't know how to vape and have no sense of taste instead of acknowledging a problem on their end, despite several similar complaints on their forum. The rep who made that agreement with me is the same rep who told me to not contact CS again.

    I was justifiably upset and unjustifiably accused of a 3part pm being threatening. I expressed how much this hurt me, offered alternative ways to be in touch as a suggestion and went as far as offering to pay for all but s/h costs if they would honor their spoken 'absolutely we test all of our products on request!) I needed them to verbally explain the initial agreement as to what they are open to doing in cases where there are repeated and continuous errors and/or faulty merchandise - that they could help by testing the product first, and requested this be done more than once. It was ignored and therefore I was continually shipped mis-manufactured items. What I got was a hostile OT e-mail and no response at all from a second V4L staff-person.

    My most recent order was lost in the mail and CS, instead of taking an interest to assist me, recanted more than 5 completely different excuses as to why they could not, fully aware I had no juice for over 10 days. Their email continued, again, back to my first order and the 'bonuses' (the trojan horse) of their put downs and avoidance. It went so far as CS dictating to me what I could and couldn't purchase as well as their request to not 'bother' them, so OT to a request for assistance over a lost package it is all review-worthy.

    4. Other

    Their privacy policy makes no sense as it says it only applies to on-line communication. What does that mean? If they read or are told personal info during a phone call they can do whatever they want with your personal information? They don't explain this.

    There is no way to delete your account - only change your cc info or email address. Your name and address is forever in their system.

    CS reps have a very high turnover, which does not exude any or successful training of their staff as well as confuse reps when resolutions are delayed and are transferred to someone new who has no idea what standing agreements were put in place. Instead of quick resolutions, extended delays, etc. seem to push new reps over the edge; are overly stressful for them to deal with causing more delays. One rep, I was told was not yet trained to take a msg is presently in charge of all customer service - a week later. Fast learner.

    V4L's shipping costs are much higher than the cost printed on the USPS label. They do not explain why.

    V4L's packing department does not pack juice and batts separately so the batt (or other items) are not ruined if the juice leaks.

    No one calls out individuals who don't pack correctly or CS reps who fail to keep their word.

    ------------------------------------


    My first 2 months with V4L was 3-5*****(5 on some items outside the scope of this forum) because I took them at the word.

    The last month <1* because their CS depleted my stock of juice, left me needing a shovel from the verbal nonsense, etc., denied their own 'contact within 72hrs on wrong products' and no way to trust them.

    My average rating based on this review, over 3 months and approx $450=$500 in, is a 2-3 and primarily based on outright negligent CS that shows no signs of improving.


    This review in no way is or implies any rating about the V4L forum, itself or any of the consumers there. This is strictly based on actual events I've personally experienced and notice can and do occur for better or worse, directly from the V4L company, that has not done anything but go around the actual problem with a schoolyard bully attitude.

    If the purpose of this forum to reach resolutions, it would take a miracle after all this nonsense.

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    Seems like there's been alot of unrest going here with some suppliers, I contacted one of the mods the other nite about this and asked several poignant questions about resolving disputes with the forum suppliers, the following is a partial quote;

    " if any member is having unresolved issues with any registered supplier on the forum, they may contact our Supplier Complaint Officer, who will work to help get any issues resolved. His contact info can be found on our Contacts Page: Ecigarette Forum Contacts "

    With that, I would highly suggest that anyone having issues, go to the link, print out the page and contact them asap, without documentation or information they cannot help.

    Hope this helps! Vicki

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    While so far I have had no problem personally with V4L, I can see where you would be frustrated based on what you said. That being said as always there are 2 sides to every story. I will agree though that it does seem like V4L does go through CS people quite a bit. Not sure why that is.

    I hope your issues get resolved with mutual satisfaction to you and the company

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtcaseyjr View Post
    While so far I have had no problem personally with V4L, I can see where you would be frustrated based on what you said. That being said as always there are 2 sides to every story. I will agree though that it does seem like V4L does go through CS people quite a bit. Not sure why that is.

    I hope your issues get resolved with mutual satisfaction to you and the company
    There are two sides to every 'story'. I think, jtcaseyjr, the problem lies in the fact that once they've let things build up and slide for so long, they choose to only listen to theirs and everything they've emailed seems to support that. They're already satisfied so aren't interested in a mutual resolve and again, have emailed as much and then some.

    As far as the CS rep turnover rate, I think, their CS might, for the most part, be working between college semesters. It was rare but the rep that was truly devoted to vaping, had more life experience and CS came very natural to him.

    Otherwise, it's simply a review of V4L based on my experience and observations of mostly their CS.

    Thanks to both of you for your concern to reply to my review.
    Last edited by WOW; 09-15-2010 at 10:19 PM. Reason: typo/s

  5. #5
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    Default UPDATED V4L Review

    I want to thank V-Chick and JTC, Jr. for your feedback, as well as everyone who didn't pounce all over me for my initial review of V4L(it helped let my issues become resolvable and instead of wasting my time defending myself, it gave me the space I needed to learn how to deal with 'when everything seems wrong' things and I'm also sure helped V4L see where some things wrong with less stress, also)

    I AM THRILLED TO POST HOW EACH AND EVERY POINT WAS, SINCE THIS POST, ADDRESSED BY V4L, FOR NOT ONLY MYSELF BUT, EVERY V4L CUSTOMER. (Less thrilling, but there's parts of my initial review that were a direct result of my needing to learn new things.

    I'm very grateful for the opportunity to correct both to rebuild trust with V4L on my side and with hope others will learn from my experience. It's easy to doubt everything during an 'everything's wrong' time and I do extend not only my apologies to V4L but what I've learned from this. Heaven forbid anyone else crash lands like I did, they'll read this first and know how to prepare themselves better than I did. I also want to thank ECF for giving members a more 'private' or 'quiet' area where miracles can be hoped for and worked toward being open to for consumers and vendors. Elindil, this forum, if needed, works with your guidelines....thanks.
    __________________________________________________ _________

    This is my detailed updated V4L review

    My present rating for V4L has, in less than 14 days changed from <1* to 4-5*'s, with one replacement enroute.


    I'm keeping the original layout and content and adding to it so others can see both the issues and the resolutions. Short of the order enroute containing only bubblewrap, I don't anticipate any further problems with V4L and unconditionally adding the extra *

    Now for the UPDATE...

    Quote Originally Posted by WOW View Post
    Keeping in accordance with Elendil's posting guidelines,(http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/for...post-here.html) this review is only based on V4L's:

    1. Shipping speed
    2. Return policy
    3. Communication
    4. and the like.


    from an objective and comparative point of view over 3 months time. 14 days. Someone at V4L asked me why I didn't say something sooner....I wanted to vape more than consider, my color choices being off would actually result in my continuous 'losing' my case in my car and purse. This was the most exceptional accommodation and understanding V4L made - When you're ready to switch off analogs you have to keep moving forward. I did say something about what has to be the worst luck with batts of anyone. The question here was asked about the case and I really didn't expect V4L to replace it, let alone not require the incorrect one back and said so when they offered to replace it. They surprise shipped one in the color I liked and I'm totally thrilled with it! I'm no longer nervous the case slipping to the bottom of my purse means I might have lost my PV and carts. I can relax a little like everyone else to feel about using their PV on the go, knowing this. These are rock solid cases not flimsy plastic holders and not every vendor comes close to this kind of quality case. Shocked they did this for me!(I had some hunch but didn't realize I wouldn't have to pay for it and was stressing about how to ask - by phone? by e-mail? Then it was in my mailbox!) Again, please keep in mind everything in this update occurred within 2 wks or 10 business days.

    1. Shipping speed

    More often than not, every order ships within 3 business days. V4L does not assist consumers equally on lost or delayed orders. I think this qualifies as a 'my learn' on the latter point. It felt that way, 'everything being wrong'. My mistake was not giving them the benefit of the doubt....since then, Steve at V4L has posted to expect major improvements including V4L possibly using UPS or Fed-Ex. One forum member posted generally about problems at the 1st P.O. pkgs are routed through - based on her spouse's first hand work related observations. My stress goes down another notch as I'm sorting through my expectations, frustration reading others attacking each other, V4L and trying to weed through threads hoping to read some practical info. The obvious finally hits - This has nothing to do with V4L. Most vendors won't do anything ever once the PO picks up their mail. They did and the person they helped was having a more urgent matter. I called my local P.O. and while it was in fact lost, they knew how to help. I got my order within 3 days of (1st ever lost pkg) appropriately (we have great mail service out here) taking the issue up with my local P.O..

    2. Return policy

    V4L's return policy does not match what is on their website. While this can often make them a far more attractive, compassionate and understanding company, it also causes mixed messages. Instead of being addressed my recent experience has shown me V4L handles consumer confusion over verbal agreements(made because "we haven't updated our return policy yet") with compounded double-talk(mixed messages), avoidance, personal insults, etc. They seem to only keep their word if they feel like it and after they convince you to not pay attention to their to be updated 'policy'. iow, when you take them at their word about their policy not being inflexible, they use their verbal policy to delay doing anything until the warranty wears out, get all sympathetic about after the fact but, ultimately do not adequately follow through. They don't honor their 72hr wrong product policy when they make the mistake more than once, instead using 'bonuses' as replacements and defaming a person after killing the fun they say the bonuses are intended for, as an 'ungrateful' customer (again to keep things clean here) They push for thank-you's when you have a serious issue, rather than correct the problem.

    Here, we reached a mutual understanding. V4L is now updating their policies, explained their side of the culmative problems of late, is they expanded their bldg, have new equipment and are hiring extra staff. It was not helpful to mention the freebies and as a compromise I bought a bottle of the one of the flavs of the freebies they had shipped. They are quite nice about those. Another one of those 'can't see the bar car in the middle of a train wreck' things. see next.....


    3. Communication

    CS in any business is there to field complaints. During the 1st couple months the majority of any email to their team was related to website problems when ordering and they handled those e-mails very well.

    My major concern was that I didn't get the kit I ordered. During that process, one of the best CS reps left V4L. The new rep, instead of shipping the kit as ordered, items in the kit were individually replaced with bonus cartos. However, 3 months later, non-functional part after non-functional part, not all items were replaced. I was told I was being 'silly' to 'petty' (to keep the language clean here) to even care about color choices. From that point forward, any problem I had was reduced to how much trouble they went to to replace the kit, which again, they didn't completely do but, as if they did. Ontop of the surprise case, all parts have now been replaced, including a newly purchased batt. I'll be shipping back all defective parts and reimbursement for my costs to do so, was offered. (As this is under communication, the level of stress both ways seems a non-issue and was explained well both on the V4L forum by Steve and by phone during the course of reaching a resolve, by CS.

    I was told by the company owner/investor it was, in his opinion, 'weird' that I purchased only 1 kit, I guess many people if not most purchase kits as gifts. I don't know but not being so upset does itself to looking at other possibilities.showing enormous confidence in V4L's products that are promoted with a longer lifespan, given a written personal promise w/ his cell # that he would discuss this and a DOA product purchased & less than a month old, that he did not follow through on because he was in meetings. No further attempt was made by him to follow through and there was no response to a direct e-mail by myself to him about this either. Indirectly, he did - again, they are making major improvements, including an on-line data-based e-mail ticket board - I don't know what it's called but it appears to organize customer e-mails to them and has the option of conversing on-line vs the forum. V4L has wasted no time grasping member-to-member abuse against anyone making a complaint, found and implement a way around it as shown enormous respect for customer privacy by doing so - again while fixing my issue and since my initial post. LIKE WOW!

    Not everything requires a follow-up from the owner and sometimes there's a good reason for not getting one. I would say this amount attention for all V4L's customers' benefit qualifies as one of those. Again that DOA batt in this paragraph has been replaced as per previous notation (for clarity and cohesion; to emphasize the enormous positive impact of their efforts already having the improved elements of a professional company willing and able to work with their customers.) .


    CS has informed me they would extend an exception by fixing my first order, correcting the DOA new separately purchased product and correcting items their packing department shipped that I didn't order, with no notice to me that they were picking some things based on guesswork I'd like them when items ordered were out of stock.a) fixed & b) enroute That verbal agreement changed to their blaming me, telling me (a 2+ pk/day smoker(I started vaping on a different PV before finding V4L) I didn't know how to vape and have no sense of taste instead of acknowledging a problem on their end, despite several similar complaints on their forum. The rep who made that agreement with me is the same rep who told me to not contact CS again. Imo, this is one of those things like I learn new things like contacting the PO myself, they have to also learn and is not something tangible but part of understanding the scope of their improvements and seeing how it goes. Sometimes we have to compromise if we are to actually reach a resolution and have the information about what was going on to work with and make happen or complaining is nothing more than bashing. I don't know anyone who hasn't made a mistake under stress and I'll leave that one as resolved at that.

    I was justifiably upset and unjustifiably accused of a 3part pm being threatening. I expressed how much this hurt me, offered alternative ways to be in touch as a suggestion and went as far as offering to pay for all but s/h costs if they would honor their spoken 'absolutely we test all of our products on request!) I needed them to verbally explain the initial agreement as to what they are open to doing in cases where there are repeated and continuous errors and/or faulty merchandise - that they could help by testing the product first, and requested this be done more than once. It was ignored and therefore I was continually shipped mis-manufactured items. What I got was a hostile OT e-mail and no response at all from a second V4L staff-person. Same thing as previous. Change is stressful on a business as it is on people. It's less important what was mispoke making V4L far more approachable than the negative influence by some on their forum was attempting to convince others is the truth about them. It isn't. They work so hard it is totally worth going through a different sort of learning curve because they won't let you down and now have extra technology to help everyone catch things early and have a positive experience. Also, someone did taste test my last juice on request and again my update changed here something that falls under, 'when everything seems wrong' throw out requesting what you need or let them know. Status: resolved.

    My most recent order was lost in the mail and CS, instead of taking an interest to assist me, recanted more than 5 completely different excuses as to why they could not, fully aware I had no juice for over 10 days. Their email continued, again, back to my first order and the 'bonuses' (the trojan horse) of their put downs and avoidance. It went so far as CS dictating to me what I could and couldn't purchase as well as their request to not 'bother' them, so OT to a request for assistance over a lost package it is all review-worthy.
    Repetative. The depth of my stress is equal to how much I like V4L. My enroute order is occurring before they have the defective things back. Very few, if any vendors can consider that even as an exception.

    4. Other

    Their privacy policy makes no sense as it says it only applies to on-line communication. What does that mean? If they read or are told personal info during a phone call they can do whatever they want with your personal information? They don't explain this.
    Explained and being updated by V4L. Status: Foggy but being resolved. In the meantime, their on-line email system and overall commitment to making V4L better for everyone seems to be allowing them some tangible way of tracking original agreements. Again, with my complaint, there was a whole lot I didn't expect anything could be done about and they surprised me - big time!

    There is no way to delete your account - only change your cc info or email address. Your name and address is forever in their system.There's a box but you have to log in to uncheck it. I got temporarily freaked out by so many complaints that I thought something else was going on. This is irrelevant and part of my stress getting on overload before the process of communication to a resolve became an open option.

    CS reps have a very high turnover, which does not exude any or successful training of their staff as well as confuse reps when resolutions are delayed and are transferred to someone new who has no idea what standing agreements were put in place. Instead of quick resolutions, extended delays, etc. seem to push new reps over the edge; are overly stressful for them to deal with causing more delays. One rep, I was told was not yet trained to take a msg is presently in charge of all customer service - a week later. Fast learner.
    Status: Resolved.

    V4L's shipping costs are much higher than the cost printed on the USPS label. They do not explain why.I think this was a PO mistake, perhaps a courtesy reduction on the one delayed/now resolved pkg. UPS or Fed-Ex would cost more so as everyone has complained excessively about USPS, all I can say is 'be careful what you wish for".

    V4L's packing department does not pack juice and batts separately so the batt (or other items) are not ruined if the juice leaks.
    Staff person is in place checking orders. I mean V4L didn't miss anything anyone, including myself had any problem with! 10 business days!!

    No one calls out individuals who don't pack correctly or CS reps who fail to keep their word. Technically, I don't know this nor do I want to and is an "I'm sorry" one. I do see massive changes in their CS that how they put together so fast and how it has seemed to make CS reps work easier for them, which of course, means better service rain or shine. This is the true mark of a good vendor - when they pull through the worst times as well as when everything runs smoothly. (the same can be said about friendships) The V4L forum is rapidly returning to the happy place it was in sync to their implementing and posting many of these changes. (if they can keep up this pace, the exception of the ranting people who kept and are still complaining should be an indication to anyone considering their company, those posts can no longer be taken as a valid influence over your decision to purchase V4L's products. Add: as in the post after this, I hope V4L will use every ECF tool available to stop the on-line customer abuse and ban certain repeat offenders. They do not reflect the heart of the V4L business and are a threat to this company's newcomers who are not aware the support to switch off analogs is more regularly than a visible asset to everyone needing it while learning to use and adjust to vaping with the KR808. This is more of an ECF issue, however and not reflective of V4L products or services. I think at some point V4L staff will post how new members can best deal with OT people. Personally, I could spend all day hitting the 'report' button and suggest noobies use the block user feature (from your profile page) and just vape happy. Follow the stickies and please know/use this review as an example of how far this company will go - expanding, implementing new web features, etc. to make things right.

    ------------------------------------
    Just so NOTHING goes unaddressed from my initial review and is misused....quickly checking off the last part of it and closing this thread as resolved with a "would recommend this company without prejudice".....

    My first 2 months with V4L was 3-5*****(5 on some items outside the scope of this forum) because I took them at the word.

    The last month <1* because their CS depleted my stock of juice, left me needing a shovel from the verbal nonsense, etc., denied their own 'contact within 72hrs on wrong products' and no way to trust them. You have to stock juice in bulk regardless. Consider it a necessity of vaping and you will be prepared to both not run out or feel physically at a loss if you try out new flavors or get a bad batch. This holds true no matter where you get your juice. V4L's are the smoothest vapest with the largest selection of top sellers. The WOW's give you a higher volt PV vape experience without the added expense and everything vapes better on a PT. V4L's are the original and hold up exceptionally well. I learned the necessity of this as a result and V4L's sales make it possible if you're on a tight budget.

    My average rating based on this review, over 3 months and approx $450=$500 in, is a 2-3 and primarily based on outright negligent CS that shows no signs of improving.


    Previous somewhat repetitive and I feel satisfied enough has been resolved that (as I already have), I would continue to purchase from them. Anyone who is still worried, again, get a PT and super-stock. But, I have never seen any company address the depth of CS and product issues, implementing new things for their staff and on-line service forms for their customers and not only acknowledging but shipping the case part of my first order (I can't imagine how well others, who stopped bashing them and let them help, fared!!! Those who chose to not bash in the first place and learn what was going on gained and those who didn't don't know what they're missing.)

    I'm quite satisfied that V4L is on the consumer's side and teve, who promised in a post he'd make me smile, did. It was well worth the 10-day (which just boggles the mind to begin with) wait.


    This review in no way is or implies any rating about the V4L forum, itself or any of the consumers there. This is strictly based on actual events I've personally experienced and notice can and do occur for better or worse, directly from the V4L company, that has....blah, blah, blah...

    If the purpose of this forum to reach resolutions, it would take a miracle after blah, blah blah....
    Thanks, ECF! This is a real turning point and I continue to extend my best wishes for ECF and V4L's ongoing success. I will not be escalating my complaint/review to any back-up ECF officers. Just a long way of saying V4L made some welcomed changes that are 4-5*'s commendable.

    Thank heaven and happy 'ing !!!!!!!!




    Last edited by WOW; 09-28-2010 at 10:11 AM. Reason: add, clarify, typos & just tired.

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    Their pre filled cartos are very hit and miss as are the batts and PT's. Poor quality control on their products. I used to order ALOT of stuff from them due to glowing reviews but quickly became dissapointed with the lack of consistancy of quality.

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    I just finished trying to correct a ton of typos and added some other thoughts (like that post gets any longer and it's going to need chapters!)

    The juice is more economical. They also have new carts that are wrapped for sanitary return. They know, like every other vendor, there's variations but watch some YouTube vids (I think I watched 1 from every vendor that has one) V4L is the only one where the person in the vid doesn't end up hacking on the juice. It's high quality. Also, if your using a KR808 cart with a high output batt, the juice is going to burn fast and effect the taste same as if you vape on a 1/2 charged batt.

    I was really heartbroken. It's hard for me to write off a company that tries so hard and makes various options available affordable. If you have a complaint visit their forum and look at the stickies. Talk to them. Let them know. This thread is not one for complaining after the exceptional efforts they made so rapidly to do what they do best - help people who want they're input smile. You've posted over there before. I'm trying to help so everyone can learn from my experience how to vape happy within these lengths they went to without one price hike on anything and more sales than ever.

    No one had these features - It's not that easy to express the difference it makes to anyone not willing to try them. They're free and don't obligate you to purchase anything. You'll feel better just knowing it's not as bad you think - a LOT has changed - I'm astounded by how fast they did this. That is part of quality control. Otherwise, you're just bashing on a informational review for your use.

    It's surreal how these things get turned back on me.

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    let me just say i dont like hassle and im thankful for your input because going in blindfolded is all you can do if reviews like this isnt done imo

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    Well, my short version is I'm a dedicated customer. Yes, a few (3) bad batts but good customer service and very generous comps. They're still my "go-to" store. Ummmmm , in fact I'm going there now. More shopping!
    A good dog, a sewing machine and an old guitar.......


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    I used v4l when I started to vape (6 months ago) and I was very pleased with them. At the time, the liquid seemed awesome, the cartos would be hit and miss and the batteries were pretty reliable. Plus they usually have a 22-24% discount once a month. What I didn't like is that they really only sold 1 type of device. Later when I acquired an 510 with a drip tip, and some liquid from a good supplier, I stopped ordering from them. I never had a problem, but just found their selection weak, and their liquids, although good, are not the best that I have tried.

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