Snus just as bad as chews?

[TropicalBob]

I tolerated the Offroad Coffee Vanilla. It was the best Offroad. The new CatchDry Vanilla Mint isn't bad. I hope the reference was to that one.

[WerkIt]

I like the Vanilla Mint minis myself. I also have made a small change on my list of SNUS I REFUSE TO PURCHASE. I have changed the Offroad entry to exclude purchases of portions, but not loose. The Offroad los comes highly recommended in many quarters.

[paladinx]

They say snus is healthier because of the manufacturing process. But it has been said that american tobacco contains lower tsna's now then it did in the past.

I think the biggest concern for any smokeless tobacco is risks of heart disease. There was a very large study, the biggest to date done on swedish snus users on something like 100 thousand construction workers. They concluded that snus gave users a 40 percent increase in cardiovascular disease and death than non tobacco users. I could be wrong, but the risk seemed to be higher for snus users then cigarette users within a certain age range.

Now later studies, that were much smaller have contradicted this, and said that there is no real risk between CVD and snus. Some claim the figures found in the large negative study dealt with a snus that had higher tsnas than they did today. who really knows. I just know that the study that said Snus gave you a 40 percent risk, was the largest study ever done. And I believe it holds some weight or at least some consideration. More modern studies have been funded partially or entirely by swedish match, so take those with a grain of salt.

what i get from it is this. Overall the risks of snus are probably lower than american tobacco, especially cigarettes, but dont have the snus in your mouth all day long all the time, because there might be some cardiovascular risks with over use.

[WerkIt]

Originally Posted by paladinx

I think the biggest concern for any smokeless tobacco is risks of heart disease. There was a very large study, the biggest to date done on swedish snus users on something like 100 thousand construction workers. They concluded that snus gave users a 40 percent increase in cardiovascular disease and death than non tobacco users. I could be wrong, but the risk seemed to be higher for snus users then cigarette users within a certain age range.

Check this summary of several studies in pdf format, which addresses cardiovascular risk. It notes other studies undertaken since the one you cited, which claim the opposite:

"However, two subsequent case-control studies by Huhtasarri and others (footnotes 40-41) did not find a significantly increased risk of myocardial infarction among snus users as compared to as compared to non-tobacco users. Both of these studies were based on data collected in Northern Sweden as part of the World Heatlth Organization MONICA (multinational monitoring of trends and determinants in cardiovascular diseases ) project.....

....In multivariate anaylses smoking remained significatnly associated with MI, whereas snus use was not.....

........Huhtasarri subsequently conducted a larger study than the one reported in 1992...this study found.....that cigarette smoking significantly increased risk of an MI (statistics cited) whereas snus use significantly REDUCED the risk (statistics cited) compared with men who never became regular tobacco users." (Check page 4 of the link and read paragraphs 5-7 under the 'Cardiovascular Disease" section to read the above quote in full with statistics.)

[TropicalBob]

Good stuff, both of you. In the past two years, since I quit cigarettes, I've read almost daily on nicotine. I want studies on nicotine consumption, apart from smoking. Hard to find and many are new. But what is evolving is the notion that nicotine has dangers and benefits. If that's so, we need to know where the line is drawn. At what blood level does it become a detriment to health, particularly cardiovascular health; how much might help keep us mentally alert into old age, etc.

And if it has benefits, then the best way to obtain those benefits for us is with snus or nasal snuff -- centuries old methods of tobacco use, without serious consequences for users. In the future, I bet Big Pharma will identify that optimal dose of nicotine and sell us all pills at $10 a pop. Leading up to that will be further restrictions and banning of products containing natural nicotine.

Keep posting your findings. Many could benefit from this collective knowledge.

[ladybug]

Originally Posted by TropicalBob

Ladybug, your list has some of the snus I consider the WORST made. Begin with the Power Elyxyr. It tastes awful, hits too hard and can make you physically ill. I managed to finish the tin I ordered, but gave it an extremely negative review on snuson.com and vowed to never put another one of those in my mouth.

Stay far away from anything labeled sterk. No Thunder, ever. These are far, far too strong for you, now and probably forever. You need a General Mini Mint.

Offroad is yucky stuff, period. The Oomph Licorice/Honey is not bad; ditto the Citrus/Menthol. The Wine and Dine is tasteless and you might get along with that.

Burning of the gums is common. Hiccups are common with stronger snus. You just need to get far away from the idea that more nicotine in snus is better. It isn't and you won't likely like any of the "sterk" or "strong" varieties.

P.S. Robert, if you don't like sweet Camel, you most certainly won't like Swedish snus. They taste far more like tobacco than the Camel product. Have you ever used chew? Camel Snus really doesn't taste like any chew I know of.

Hi TropicalBob,I consider you to be a great source of information about all things nicotene,so I thank you for the info you gave meI am going to check out snuson.com,is that where you get your snuss at? I am more into minty,sweet flavors,so I have no idea why I picked extra sterk! Don't even know what sterk means...LOL! Haven't been brave enough to try it yetThe reason i picked the snus I did was trying for high nicotene content,and your right,more nic isn't going to make it better if I can't use it. So,as always I'm open to ideas and suggestions! P.S. I used my vanilla mint snus at work today,no one knew and it is better than the slimy commit lozenges that I have been using with my ecigs

[WerkIt]

Originally Posted by ladybug

Hi TropicalBob,I consider you to be a great source of information about all things nicotene,

I agree 100%, because T-Bob sticks with FACTS instead of suppositions.

Originally Posted by ladybug

I am going to check out snuson.com,is that where you get your snuss at?

Snuson is to snus as these forums are to e-cigs.

Originally Posted by ladybug

Don't even know what sterk means.

Sterk means 'strong,' as in a higher level of nicotine. I don't claim to have any ability or right to speak for T-Bob, but to me, I hear him advocating for moderation in the use of nicotine, although I could be wrong.

[ladybug]

Thanx for you input Werkit! I take it you also use snuss? If so what do you enjoy? Also what ecigs are you using? I have janty stick, and I really like the ecigars for lots of vape and throat hit

[WerkIt]

Originally Posted by ladybug

Thanx for you input Werkit!

You are welcome. I don't know everything, but do the best I can.

Originally Posted by ladybug

I take it you also use snuss?

Snus is now my primary form of nicotine, although I originally quit analogs with e-cigs.

Originally Posted by ladybug

If so what do you enjoy?

White mini portions are my preferred snus, primarily because they only contain 4 mg of nicotine (except for Mocca, which has 5 mg) and white portions have a slower release and therefore, softer nic hit. I require low levels of nicotine, which was true even when I smoked analogs. I am experimenting with loose, aka 'los' presently, although I only have two tins of it. I am growing my own tobacco to make snus, so will need to learn to work with los.

Originally Posted by ladybug

Also what ecigs are you using?

I have a RN4081 which has a dead atomizer. The joy306A set still puts out. Now, I only hit the e-cig late at night before bed, so as not to waste a snus portion. I mix my own e-liquids using glycerine and Fairie's Finest Creme De Cafe extract, which is kahlua flavored, which I mix down to 4 mg or less, from a 24 mg tasteless commercial e-liquid.

[TropicalBob]

WerkIt and I are so alike ...

Ladybug, taste is such an individual matter that it's really difficult to say what you might like among the ones that I dislike. Fortunately, snus is not prohibitively expensive, so a failure is not like, say, regretting that Screwdriver e-cig purchase.

The bottom line is that nicotine, like caffeine, is bitter. Its natural purpose is to drive away insects that threaten its host. Tobacco is full of the bitter stuff, so tobacconists go to some lengths to modify their products so they taste better. (Notice how many coffee flavors there are today?). The more a snus tastes like tobacco, the more bitter it will be. And bitter is an acquired taste (we have sweet, salty, sour and bitter tastes on this earth). I like sweet and/or salty, so the sweeter snus is right up my alley.

No matter which you like, you're better off than smoking cigarettes, of course. The snus history is a great one, free of alarming spikes in cancer, emphysema, etc. among users. And e-cigs remain an unknown, with far too few tests done and none of them peer-reviewed and approved. So I want to continue to encourage you towards snus use. If you must have nicotine -- and I must -- then find the safest known source that satisfies you.