Snus just as bad as chews?
ok so correct me if im wrong but aren't snus just like chew and contain the same awful chemicals and carcinogens? yes its an alternative to smoking but one still proven to cause face cancers........ why not just stick to the vapes?
deeptrout ... don't quote me ... But I believe Snus is actually just finely ground up tobacco, with no added chemicals/carcinogens. Atleast the swedish stuff is I believe. Not sure on the USA made snus!
First of all, what proof do you have for the above claim? Second of all, why is it that snus used to contain a warning stating that it may cause cancer, but as of 2005, is no longer required to contain that warning, because NONE of the numerous health studies of snus, going back for a century, showed ANY increased risk of oral cancer? Which brings us back to the first question; What is your proof for the above claim?
Originally Posted by deeptrout
Those 'same awful chemicals and carcinogens' you mention above are known as tobacco specific nitrosamines (TSNA). Traditionally, oral tobaccos produced in the US were fermented. Fermentation produces high levels of TSNAs and there are studies that demonstrate the levels of TSNAs of US produced oral tobaccos INCREASED as the product sat on the shelves.
Originally Posted by deeptrout
Snus, and I am talking about Swedish snus here, is regulated as a food by the Swedes, so is subject to an entirely different set of regulations than US oral tobaccos. Additionally, snus is not fermented. Instead, snus is steam pasteurized, which leads to exceedingly low levels of TSNAs, with many Swedish snus containing TSNAs in FRACTIONS of 1 part per milliion. Here's a quote from an older study (2001), which demonstrates the principle:
"The concentration of the total TSNA in the leading U.S. moist oral snuff brands varies greatly, from 7.5 to 128 µg per g dry tobacco (Table 2). For comparison with the TSNA concentrations in the leading five U.S. snuff brands, a popular Swedish snuff brand, which was produced under anaerobic conditions, had even lower TSNA values (2.8 µg/g) than the lowest U.S. snuff brand. This demonstrates that snuff can be produced with low concentration of TSNA and with it, with a significantly reduced potential for carcinogenic activity. The technology clearly exists to manufacture snuff with low levels of TSNA, as shown by the Swedish brand and the brand made by Swedish Match.
The TSNA levels in the two leading U.S. snuff brands, accounting for 69 % of the 1999 U.S. market (14), were found to increase during 6 months storage at room temperature between 30 and 130 %, while the TSNA concentration in the Swedish brand increased inconsequentially." Source
This article references a much larger study, conducted over a period of years:
"The study also showed that using snus did not increase the risk of oral cancer, "
Last edited by WerkIt; 06-11-2009 at 05:39 PM.
I knew someone had to the *Go-To* info!
Thanks Werk It !!!
Snus and chew look similar, but the manufacturing process and the secondary ingredients are VERY different.
Originally Posted by deeptrout
Chew uses sugar products and is fermented.
Snus uses salt and is pasterized similar what is done to milk products. This drastically reduces the TSNAs (Tobacco-specific N-nitrosamines) in tobacco that have been found to be carcinogenic.
Here's a short quote from an article by Larry Waters:
"The biggest concern of any tobacco user is cancer. Snus does not cause lung cancer because it has no tar and is not inhaled. But there are naturally occurring substances in tobacco that are carcinogenic. They are called TSNA's.
The lower the TSNA level in a tobacco product, the less harmful/risky it is concerning cancer. Oral and throat cancer is most associated with American Chewing Tobacco or Dip. Here are some products and numbers to make this real for you.
Copenhagen has a TSNA level of 41.1
Skoal has a TSNA level of 64.0
Silver Creek has a TSNA level of 127.9
OK, nice numbers, but compared to what? Snus is an oral tobacco product too. Here are two Scandinavian Snus's and their TSNA levels:
Ettan Snus made by Swedish Match in Sweden has a TSNA level of 2.8
Offroad and Phantom, two brands with multiple flavors of Snus made by V2 Tobacco have TSNA levels of 0.7
The Difference is HUGE: remember, the lower the TSNA level, the better."
And to your question as to why not just stick to vapes?
Simple: The more ammunition you have in your arsonnel to combat addiction and in harm reduction, the better.
I can't speak for everyone here, but those of us who find that vaping just doesn't work as a complete replacement for cigarettes find a HUGE comfort in the fact that there are many alternatives to choose from. And most importantly, alternatives that are safer than what started our addiction.
The Swedes have proven that the use of snus has greatly reduced the cancers associated with smoking. While their tobacco use is just as high as any other country in all of Europe, their cancer risk as a whole is the lowest in those same countries.
So, to answer your original question:
No - snus and chew aren't the same at all.
You are welcome. Now you know why the US produced Camel 'SNUS' scares the hell out of me.
Originally Posted by CaSHMeRe
And I LOVE vaping, but it is a hell of alot of maintenance. With snus, I throw a tin in the back pocket and walk out the door. With vaping, I have to grab the e-cig, a back up battery, possibly a charger, a bottle of e-liquid, a tool to push the cartridge thingy out for refills, etc. Why must I carry a man-purse to get my nicotine?
Last edited by WerkIt; 06-11-2009 at 05:51 PM.
Wow - lot of activity on this thread while I was preparing an answer.
I need to learn to type faster...
So more info, if you're interested:
Last edited by Elwin; 06-11-2009 at 05:53 PM.
THAT"S the fractions of parts per million I was talking about!
Originally Posted by Elwin
Actually, the modern US oral tobaccos aren't as high in TSNAs as they used to be. This pdf has a chart on page 7 which shows the TSNAs of US oral tobaccos as of 2003. Both Oliver Twist-tropical and Redman, were actually lower in TSNAs (1.5 ppm and 1.8 ppm respectively) than the Swedish snus (which ranged from 2.0-2.2 ppm)..
Last edited by WerkIt; 06-11-2009 at 06:47 PM.
Thank you for the references, but do you, or anyone for that matter, know of any studies that compare Swedish Snus to the American (Camel) Snus? The sources you cite only compare "traditional" chewing tobacco makers, as far as I can tell. Are there any sources that indicate American Snus are made with the same sugar-fermentation method as chewing tobacco?
Originally Posted by WerkIt
By the way, since I'm full of questions, what the hell are Snus anyway? I see listings in that PDF for moist and dry snuff, as well as chewing tobacco and cigarettes, but not Snus. People are always asking me, but I really don't know what the hell they are! LOL
Am I dreaming?, but are there folks out there who are actually comparing Snus as an alternative to E-cigs????? How does Snus wind up on an E-cig forum?? Snus may or may not be free of chemicals found in flamable cigarettes, but that's not the point. The major inconvenience of Snus (or chew tobacco) is the requirement to SPIT - and that is disgusting, socially unacceptable, inconvenient, unsanitary, --- need I go on?