Quitting with snus - e-cigarette-forum.com • The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat

Stubby · 07-14-2009, 08:36 PM

Not much of a personal opinion on this story at the moment but thought it may be of interest. Not sure how valid the testing was. How could a million Swedes be wrong.

Study: New products may not curb smokers' cravings | Richmond Times-Dispatch

It looks as if the study was funded by PM. I would take it with a very large grain of salt.

TropicalBob · 07-14-2009, 09:59 PM

Well, the study does come from the University of Philip Morris, a Virginia university that now does PM's research on the dole. But I nonetheless think the conclusions are sound. No alternative to cigarette smoking can equal smoking a cigarette. And I don't care how much nicotine a snus contains, it cannot equal a cigarette in physiological impact. Same for all the others -- dissolvables, nasal snuff, tobacco bits like Oliver Twist.

For me, that's why I use them in combination, along with e-smoking. I did my own calculations long ago and determined I would need to vape 100mg e-liquid to obtain the nicotine levels I had as a 30-a-day cigarette smoker. Even combining e-smoking with snus and nasal snuff at the same time cannot equal the kick of a cigarette.

That's why I feel it's important that many e-smokers WANT to quit cigarettes. E-cigs aren't magic. They help a quitter, but don't substitute completely for what is being given up. I'm pleasantly surprised when someone says they "accidentally" quit cigarettes by vaping. I'd like to get that testimony after a minimum of a year. My bet is the e-cig quit rate won't be much higher than any other nicotine replacement method.

This is sad. But true. Thanks for posting the article, even though I can't find a bright spot in it.

Stubby · 07-15-2009, 10:25 AM

Another view from snus central on the article.

Philip Morris Says Snus will not Help Smokers Quit

Perhaps a bit on the conspiratorial side of life but I'm having a hard time disagreeing with it. The strongest snus used in the study was camel SNUS. About equal to a mini for me. Likely not enough to satisfy a heavy, or even average smoker (pack a day).

It's obvious that different people have different nicotine needs but for me snus has enough. The thing I do miss at times is the spike that is gotten from cigarettes. That has yet to be duplicated by anything out there. I've learned to live without it, and it gets easier.

I gave up e-cigs in the past month and a half. To much like the real thing, and I wasn't getting anything out of it anyways. It seems to have made staying off analogs easier.

I'll make a guess at the calculation for e-juice. At a 10% nicotine absorption rate, 3mm of 100 mg e-juice would equal 30 mg absorbed.
That's equal to 30 cigarettes at 1 mg nicotine absorbed each.

You would have to do about 12 mm of 24 mg juice.

Is that even possible.

CoderGuy · 07-15-2009, 02:25 PM

It is interesting and unfortunate. I myself as a 2 pack a day smoker for 26 years am finding that while I have so far been able to avoid analogs, as the days roll on I am finding very slowly the need to increase my nic intake, which would indicate that while I am basically satisfying my nic craving, I am also slowly suffering from nic withdrawal symptoms in the background.

I wanted to get off tobacco completely and just stick with vaping, but now I am also using snus, and just yesterday I rationalized, "well snus is tobacco anyway, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to occasionally have a regular cig". Soon I will be doing everything at once

Of course I never intended to "quit" when I started vaping, vaping started as a means to help in situations where I couldn't smoke, like hotels and rental cars when I travel. Then I realized I really liked it and didn't like the taste of cigs anymore so I started vaping exclusively. Then I started cutting down on my nic levels and entertaining the idea of quitting all together. Then I stopped vaping for a couple weeks. It's been all downhill from there as I find myself slowly craving nic more and more.

So now I find myself in the situation that I am not quite sure what I want to do, vape, vape-snus, vape-snus-smoke, etc. etc. I have resigned myself to the idea that I no longer want to quit and already have some choice words for my doc next time he asks if I am "still not smoking" LOL

I am sure there are several others on here in almost the same situation.

CoderGuy

paladinx · 07-19-2009, 06:31 AM

I kind of agree with bob, Cigarettes are a deadly, yet great invention lol. It gives u some kind of kick that is hard to replicate. that being said. Addiction is addiction. There are many people out there who switched to smokeless tobacco like skoal etc, and got hooked on that stuff pretty easily. everyone is different. my friend smoked camel unfiltered cigs, about 40-60 a day, and then went to skoal completely and now is addicted to skoal. He says he gets more satisfaction from the skoal and doesn't think he could ever quit it. I honestly think american smokeless tobacco probably would be the best choice for making the initial switch from smoking to smokeless, then from there go to snus. They probably put a lot more crap in the skoal and cope that gives more of a cigarette type buzz. I know when I used skoal i got so much damn nicotine I didnt even want a cigarette.

Oh yeah and snus HAS to be better than a patch or lozenges. So if they are going to make any claims that smokeless wont help. then they better stop selling gums and patches no?

Olio · 07-19-2009, 05:24 PM

I almost tried snus but the guy at the store said it didn't really give a nicotine buzz or get rid of cravings, I still want to try it though

paladinx · 07-19-2009, 06:05 PM

lol try it, dont listen to that dumb article, a friggin study by Philip Morris haha. They are still in the business of selling cigarettes not snus. Will snus or anything work EXACTLY like cigarettes, No way. nothing does. But that does not mean it cant be successful in quiting. Sweden proved that.

The main reason, and the reason why pm can create a study to show that snus is not effective in smoking cessation is a pretty simple one. It def has to do with cultural difference. When u talk about smokeless tobacco to the average person, they are not even interested. they make a face like ewww. It is not that appealing to this culture.

The way to quit is in the mind. If you really really want to quit, you could probably quit without the help of anything. But for others, like myself, I want to curb my cravings and do something less harmful. What else is there to curve cravings that is effective? if its nicotine you seek, then really what else is there besides snus? gums and patches you get hardly any nicotine. Vaping too you dont get enough nicotine. So out of all our nicotine options, snus seems like the best bet thus far.

07-14-2009, 08:36 PM	#1
Stubby Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madison, WI USA Posts: 186	Quitting with snus Not much of a personal opinion on this story at the moment but thought it may be of interest. Not sure how valid the testing was. How could a million Swedes be wrong. Study: New products may not curb smokers' cravings \| Richmond Times-Dispatch It looks as if the study was funded by PM. I would take it with a very large grain of salt. __________________ Stubby Madison WI Last edited by Stubby; 07-14-2009 at 08:44 PM.

07-15-2009, 10:25 AM	#3
Stubby Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Madison, WI USA Posts: 186	Another view from snus central on the article. Philip Morris Says Snus will not Help Smokers Quit Perhaps a bit on the conspiratorial side of life but I'm having a hard time disagreeing with it. The strongest snus used in the study was camel SNUS. About equal to a mini for me. Likely not enough to satisfy a heavy, or even average smoker (pack a day). It's obvious that different people have different nicotine needs but for me snus has enough. The thing I do miss at times is the spike that is gotten from cigarettes. That has yet to be duplicated by anything out there. I've learned to live without it, and it gets easier. I gave up e-cigs in the past month and a half. To much like the real thing, and I wasn't getting anything out of it anyways. It seems to have made staying off analogs easier. I'll make a guess at the calculation for e-juice. At a 10% nicotine absorption rate, 3mm of 100 mg e-juice would equal 30 mg absorbed. That's equal to 30 cigarettes at 1 mg nicotine absorbed each. You would have to do about 12 mm of 24 mg juice. Is that even possible. __________________ Stubby Madison WI Last edited by Stubby; 07-15-2009 at 08:33 PM.

07-15-2009, 02:25 PM	#4
CoderGuy Supporting Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Washington, USA Posts: 156	It is interesting and unfortunate. I myself as a 2 pack a day smoker for 26 years am finding that while I have so far been able to avoid analogs, as the days roll on I am finding very slowly the need to increase my nic intake, which would indicate that while I am basically satisfying my nic craving, I am also slowly suffering from nic withdrawal symptoms in the background. I wanted to get off tobacco completely and just stick with vaping, but now I am also using snus, and just yesterday I rationalized, "well snus is tobacco anyway, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to occasionally have a regular cig". Soon I will be doing everything at once Of course I never intended to "quit" when I started vaping, vaping started as a means to help in situations where I couldn't smoke, like hotels and rental cars when I travel. Then I realized I really liked it and didn't like the taste of cigs anymore so I started vaping exclusively. Then I started cutting down on my nic levels and entertaining the idea of quitting all together. Then I stopped vaping for a couple weeks. It's been all downhill from there as I find myself slowly craving nic more and more. So now I find myself in the situation that I am not quite sure what I want to do, vape, vape-snus, vape-snus-smoke, etc. etc. I have resigned myself to the idea that I no longer want to quit and already have some choice words for my doc next time he asks if I am "still not smoking" LOL I am sure there are several others on here in almost the same situation. CoderGuy __________________

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07-14-2009, 09:59 PM	#2
TropicalBob ECF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, FL USA Posts: 5,076	Well, the study does come from the University of Philip Morris, a Virginia university that now does PM's research on the dole. But I nonetheless think the conclusions are sound. No alternative to cigarette smoking can equal smoking a cigarette. And I don't care how much nicotine a snus contains, it cannot equal a cigarette in physiological impact. Same for all the others -- dissolvables, nasal snuff, tobacco bits like Oliver Twist. For me, that's why I use them in combination, along with e-smoking. I did my own calculations long ago and determined I would need to vape 100mg e-liquid to obtain the nicotine levels I had as a 30-a-day cigarette smoker. Even combining e-smoking with snus and nasal snuff at the same time cannot equal the kick of a cigarette. That's why I feel it's important that many e-smokers WANT to quit cigarettes. E-cigs aren't magic. They help a quitter, but don't substitute completely for what is being given up. I'm pleasantly surprised when someone says they "accidentally" quit cigarettes by vaping. I'd like to get that testimony after a minimum of a year. My bet is the e-cig quit rate won't be much higher than any other nicotine replacement method. This is sad. But true. Thanks for posting the article, even though I can't find a bright spot in it.

07-19-2009, 06:31 AM	#5
paladinx ECF Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 351	I kind of agree with bob, Cigarettes are a deadly, yet great invention lol. It gives u some kind of kick that is hard to replicate. that being said. Addiction is addiction. There are many people out there who switched to smokeless tobacco like skoal etc, and got hooked on that stuff pretty easily. everyone is different. my friend smoked camel unfiltered cigs, about 40-60 a day, and then went to skoal completely and now is addicted to skoal. He says he gets more satisfaction from the skoal and doesn't think he could ever quit it. I honestly think american smokeless tobacco probably would be the best choice for making the initial switch from smoking to smokeless, then from there go to snus. They probably put a lot more crap in the skoal and cope that gives more of a cigarette type buzz. I know when I used skoal i got so much damn nicotine I didnt even want a cigarette. Oh yeah and snus HAS to be better than a patch or lozenges. So if they are going to make any claims that smokeless wont help. then they better stop selling gums and patches no?

07-19-2009, 05:24 PM	#6
Olio Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 20	I almost tried snus but the guy at the store said it didn't really give a nicotine buzz or get rid of cravings, I still want to try it though

07-19-2009, 06:05 PM	#7
paladinx ECF Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 351	lol try it, dont listen to that dumb article, a friggin study by Philip Morris haha. They are still in the business of selling cigarettes not snus. Will snus or anything work EXACTLY like cigarettes, No way. nothing does. But that does not mean it cant be successful in quiting. Sweden proved that. The main reason, and the reason why pm can create a study to show that snus is not effective in smoking cessation is a pretty simple one. It def has to do with cultural difference. When u talk about smokeless tobacco to the average person, they are not even interested. they make a face like ewww. It is not that appealing to this culture. The way to quit is in the mind. If you really really want to quit, you could probably quit without the help of anything. But for others, like myself, I want to curb my cravings and do something less harmful. What else is there to curve cravings that is effective? if its nicotine you seek, then really what else is there besides snus? gums and patches you get hardly any nicotine. Vaping too you dont get enough nicotine. So out of all our nicotine options, snus seems like the best bet thus far.