E-Cigs are really looked down upon by recent quitters.

[Kate51]

I discovered e-ciggs by reading the FDA report on a news site. I thought "if they are talking a ban, there must be something to it". Discovered 1 carcinogen and 1 possible trace poison. Thought "Hell that's way better!!". Made my first order. On the half day I got my order I smoked 8 ana's. Day 2 smoked 2 1/2. Day 3 I became a full time vaper. I kinda feel like a crack head. i.e. "Don't touch my 901". I have full plans on reducing my nic intake and quitting all together. No time frame set. Not gonna set one. I smoked 38 years, most of those at 2 packs a day. Actually tasting and smelling things I've never experienced! Course that could be a bad thing . Been a "Non-Smoker" for 42 days. I don't even want one of those nasty things!

That's the best one I've heard in a long time! Good for you, you are going to make it for sure, this thing needs a person with a sense of humor to really get the gist of the FDA comedy tragedy!!
Nice to see you here!

[Nestran]

My brother-in-law is one such person, he quit cold turkey, it took five years for him to not have cravings: he gained over and hundred pounds, and became a jerk. Now he asks me when I'm going to stop sucking on that thing. I tell him when I get G-D'd good and ready to. Shut up. Which one of us is a little healthier now?? Good question. Hmmm...nicotine....hundred pounds of fat....nicotine...hundred pounds of fat...nicotine!!

Nice, he quit smoking and actually increased his risk for cardiac arrest. The reports that I have read were that 75lbs of fat gained over your normal weight actually puts you in the same heart disesase bracket as a pack a day smoker.

Nestran

[Kate51]

There's just no justice is there! I think that's what made him such a jerk. He made such a big deal of quitting smoking that now he just looks like a fool. So remind me again how much more dangerous and costly smoking is than obesity!! Health Care reform, anyone? So they tax cigarettes first, then food? I think they just like to play with our heads. If you can't fix it, tax it!! They may just have something there. Kill two birds with one tax. Health Care Reform complete. Get rid of the two highest rated expenses. Not so dumb after all, eh? Before you play mind games, make sure you have one. Just keep your hands off my PV! And don't even think of taking away my gun....

[Samalie0]

If you want to flame me incessantly, I'll understand

I'm one of the militant .......s on the forum you linked to, that quit the hard way as you like to put it.

Overall, I'm not a fan of the PV, or e-cig, or whatever terminology we wish to use, not because I don't think it can be successfully used to quit smoking, but because of the attitude that some PV'ers have displayed on our forums.

Despite our url and name "QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com", we really are a site that advocates the freedom from nicotine, not just no longer smoking analogs. And yes, we do accept NRT as a method of quitting, providing of course that the intention is to get off the NRT eventually. We are not the Freedom boards who advocate that cold turkey is the ONLY way to go.

But getting back on topic, we've seen most people who advocate the PV's to be advocating them as a replacement to analog, as opposed to actually getting off nicotine as a whole. We're not a bunch of bitter bastards who are angry because we've deprived ourselves of nicotine...we're a bunch of joyous bastards because we're free.

I've read this thread, and I'd be interested to know the results of any study comparing other quit methods with PV's...although I don't think that the rates of PV's will be any better than other forms of NRT. I think they'll show similar numbers to NRT for going back to analogs, and similar numbers of people who aren't smoking but addicted to the NRT.

For our quit smoking home, we don't see the choice to change the nicotine delivery method to be any different from still smoking. Yes, its healthier than an analog (or at least probably is), but it doesn't fit into our beliefs of freedom from nicotine.

If anyone thinks I'm being disrespectful, I do apologise in advance...I'm not trying to come into your "home" and tell you that you guys all suck and that our way is the way you have to go...I'm just trying to help anyone that cares to understand why the e-cig evangelists tend to be bashed around in our forums. And as I stated in the beginning, if you want to bash me around, please feel free...I've got think skin

Good luck all, and I hope that everyone here who wishes to will remain free from analogs, and someday be free from nicotine too.

Sammy

I have been free of intentionally inhaling dangerous chemicals and addictive poisons for 8 Months, 4 Weeks, 1 Day, 16 hours and 18 minutes (271 days). I have avoided using 4,075 nicotine delivery devices, giving me an extra $1,740.76 to enjoy 2 Weeks, 3 hours and 35 minutes of life I would not have had.

[gooney0]

(With torch in one hand and a pitchfork in the other)

Get him!

I can see your points Sammy. I think we our views differ is the difference between smoking and nicotine.

For me the big advantage of the PV is the ability to separate nicotine from inhaling stuff. I can't adjust the nicotine level in cigarettes.

Really, PVs are a "half measure." We can all agree it is best to simply breathe air.

I guess the question is:

"Is using a PV incompatible with your site's goal to quit smoking?" or "Is the PV a valid method to quit smoking?"

It sounds like your answer is "yes" and "no" respectively.

I used to run a message board years ago so I can understand your position. He who pays the bills makes the rules.

Even if we don't agree you are the "enemy of our enemy." I'll refrain from shouting "This is the ECF!" and kicking you into a bottomless pit.

Perhaps you can set up QuitUsingECigsMessageBoard.com? If so i'll join in a couple of months.

-Gooney0

[Samalie0]

[quote=gooney0;625119"Is using a PV incompatible with your site's goal to quit smoking?" or "Is the PV a valid method to quit smoking?"

It sounds like your answer is "yes" and "no" respectively.
[/quote]

I do not believe that a PV is incompatable with our site's goal to quit nicotine. My problem (and allow me to state that I speak for myself, and not those forums as a whole), is that there is absolutely zero science yet to determine if PV is effective as a nicotine cessation path.

I'm not so close-minded to think that PV's are wrong...and I fully realize that some people have successfully quit nicotine using PV's...but I also believe that the similarity to smoking can be very tempting to a newbie quitter, and the whole "its safer" argument can be turned around by a nicotine junkie to mean to them that they can keep feeding the addiction, because PV's are "safe".

I welcome any science behind PV's, and will gladly change my tune if PV's show an improvement in long term cessation over Cold Turkey rates. I just want some science backing the use of PV's as a nicotine cessation aid before I advocate their use.

(And for anyone interested, I'm more than willing to continue discussing this...as I said, I'm not close-minded & always welcome debate)

Sammy

[Vocalek]

Sammy: What I need help in understanding is why it is so important to you that I stop using nicotine.

My six months of not smoking has greatly improved my physical health. I have no desire to resume tobacco smoking. Why isn't that good enough? Why must I be forced to pay for improved physical health with my cognitive and emotional health?

Why do you prefer to see me curled up in a ball on my couch, crying my heart out, contemplating suicide, unable to reason and remember, unable to function? Why is that so important to you?

Why can't it be OK for me to be a former-smoker, but also be able to safely drive a car, read with comprehension, write coherently, go to work, manage my finances, and manage my elderly mother's medications without making serious (possibly fatal) errors? Why isn't OK for me to be, well, NORMAL?

I apologize for the rant. I am sure that you do not wish me any harm. The problem is that you don't believe me when I tell you a) how nicotine abstinence impacts me and b) that these adverse effects don't go away by themselves. Medications are only partially effective. Nicotine totally reverses them.

How can I make you understand that what is true for your body and your brain is not necessarily universal? Would you drop dead if you eat a peanut? I eat peanuts every day without a problem, but for those who have the allergy, even a drop of peanut oil can be deadly.

If you want science, I will give you science. I have amassed a vast collection of articles and abstracts on the topic of nicotine, smoking cessation, and how both affect mood and cognition. I'll be posting references and short extracts in later responses.

Meanwhile, read what visionary Scottish researchers David Balfour and Karl Fagerstrom had to say 13 years ago in the 36-page article, "Pharmacology of Nicotine and Its Therapeutic Use in Smoking Cessation and Neurodegenerative Disorders," Pharmacol Ther. 1996;72(1):51-81.

6. NICOTINE SEEKING AND ADDICTION: AN OPPORTUNITY FOR HARM REDUCTION

If the reason for controlling tobacco smoking is to reduce the medical harm it produces, cancer, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and cardiovascular disease, there is another possibility that should he considered. Nicotine by itself does not cause cancer or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Also, available data suggest that NRT “would not be a significant contributor to cardiovascular disease” (Benowitz,1995). It is also questionable whether nicotine, as delivered in the slow NRT preparations, has any major part in the causation of cardiovascular disease. The condition where nicotine in any form seems to he contraindicated is pregnancy, where there is possibility of harm to the fetus, although to a lesser degree than with smoking (Benowitz, 1991). If nicotine preparations could he developed that were acceptable to smokers, there is the possibility of eliciting a substantial reduction in tobacco smoking, while not necessarily maintaining complete abstinence.

Such use of NRT, although controversial for those hoping for a total extinction of nicotine use, without doubt would do more service to mankind and public health than what NRT could contribute in smoking cessation.

(page 71)

Whether you want to call it a PV or an e-cigarette, the invention we have embraced embodies, in my opinion, the long-overdue nicotine preparation that is acceptable to smokers. Because the continued use of it IN PLACE OF TOBACCO SMOKING is acceptable to us, we are physically healthier, and we no longer negatively impact the physical health of those around us. Can you see the value in that?

[Samalie0]

I (and I would suggest most of the members of the QSMB agree with this) have no issue personally with PV's. I have no issue with the fact that ingestion of nicotine works for you, and that you're non-functional without it. I have no question that you experience what you said when you cease nicotine. And, for you, I recognize that quitting smoking, but not nicotine, is good enough.

Where our differences lie, is the fact that the QSMB is a freedom from nicotine support group. We, as a membership, have comitted to purging nicotine from our lives...and many of us have been exceptionally successful in our quits. To us, in the contect of that forum, simply quitting smoking but still ingesting nicotine is not good enough.

I have nothing against any of you, or any PV user. I recognize that its working, for you.

All we are asking is to accept that PV's are not for us, and that we have no intention of accepting PV's as an acceptable form of nicotine cessation until there is scientific study showing that the harm of PV's is at least as low as other forms of NRT, and that PV's are at least as effective in nicotine cessation programs as other forms of NRT.

I'm not here to start a war, or incite a riot. I accept that ya'all are happy and healthier and dedicated to vaping. And I'm fine with that, and would never think of saying anything bad, or wishing failure in smoking abstenance to any of you.

But we have people spamming e-cig sites on our boards, and suggesting that we're doomed to failure because we dont use PV's. And I'm sorry, but thats just simply unacceptable on our boards (not suggesting any of you are behind it either...but just that its not acceptable there).

In all sincerity, I wish each and every one of you the best, and I'm glad that vaping works for you. I hope that not a single one of you ever goes back to analogs again. I hope that PV's are proven safe, and that they are proven to be useful in nicotine cessation programs.

If quitting smoking but not nicotine is good enough for you, who the hell am I to say otherwise, especially in your home. But I would ask that you have the same level of respect for our beliefs, and refrain from any spamming or negativity in our home too

Sammy

[Ez Duzit]

Sammy, thank you for not being belligerent or arrogant like others from that website, and for taking the time to explain your (and their) side.
But I have a question.
You said;
"Where our differences lie, is the fact that the QSMB is a freedom from nicotine support group. We, as a membership, have comitted to purging nicotine from our lives...and many of us have been exceptionally successful in our quits. To us, in the contect of that forum, simply quitting smoking but still ingesting nicotine is not good enough."

If this statement is the truth, then why aren't others on that site more vocal towards people using the patch, or gum, or other NRT's? Because I've only seen that bad attitude BS directed at people who vape!

[PTJD]

Sammy, thanks for posting, appreciate your input. You are welcome here.
Please feel free to post your input to this topic.