Analysis of electronic cigarette vapor

[Semiretired]

But Roly maybe the inadequate research has a purpose.

If you want something to fail what better way to do so than to use faulty research on it to begin with. If you want to show inhaling from an ecig carries violent health concerns - have the equipment setup so the equipment is utilzing vaping techniques that will produce the results you want it to produce. Heat the plastic, burn the carto / atty, overheat the battery, etc...

It is the same way with any analytical procedure. Set up your analysis so that it produces what you want it to produce or at least make sure it does not produce what you do not want it to produce... Economist, Geologist, Chemist, etc. all use these practices if that is what is necessary and what is required to satisfy the funding authority or to prove a statement that has already been made and needs backing...

[FreeFire]

Roly.....thank you for all your information. You truly have a gift and understanding of these matters. I enjoyed reading (and will read several more times). Thank you!

[rolygate]

@Semiretired
The e-cigarette field is one of the few where conspiracy theories are not seen. The money trail is so clear, the regulatory capture issues so obvious, the government corruption so necessary, that conspiracies are not needed - it's a free-fire zone for anyone who wants to bring e-cigs down, since the government agencies concerned have been bought.

Who would stand up and openly argue against a public health measure that will save at least 50% of smoking deaths? Only those financially conflicted, or maybe with some kind of personal issues.

No conspiracies needed.

The proof is in Sweden where they have the lowest smoking prevalence in the developed world by a long way, and >150 clinical trials that say their alternative tobacco product (Snus) is virtually harmless. Look at the chart of EU lung cancer rates for example, SE is right down at the bottom. With results like that their death rate from lung cancer is about a quarter of somewhere like Hungary. It parallels the number of smokers.

It's why so many doctors and professors of medicine who are public health experts have endorsed e-cigarettes. The antis have not tried to argue that the Swedish Miracle doesn't exist - that would be a tough job, with 25 years of data proving otherwise. E-cigs are a much easier target because we don't have the population-level data over decades, as they do in Sweden.

Once a pharmaceutical license is issued for an e-cigarette, things will slowly change - it will be more difficult for paid propagandists to publish lies. There is no pharma license for Snus, being an obvious tobacco product and far less vulnerable to legal assaults, but they have a mountain of data instead.

[Traver]

However I wouldn't be surprised if flavorings are a higher proportion than might be expected. One reason for that is because e-liquids are more heavily flavored than people think. If you DIY then you can find that you need to go to 40% flavoring in order to replicate the flavor strength of some of the commercial liquids. I doubt if there is anything much out there under 25%.

I DIY and use mostly FA flavors at 3 to 5 percent and they are already diluted with pg. Other brands usually require more flavoring up to 25% with Capella but they may be more diluted. I really don't know what the actual percentage of flavor is.

There is also a growing trend to use natural extracts. I don't have a clue as to what may be in those. Coffee beans for example are known to contain something like nineteen carcinogens. The carcinogens are in low quantities and I'm just using this as an example. I'm not sure how natural extracts are regulated or if they are regulated at all. I' not sure if the companies that sell them even know what is in them.

Even if these tests were valid things are chainging so fast that we still wouldn't know what is in the liquids vapors are buying.

[Martö]

MSDS sheets are already out there on PG, VG, and Nicotine. The flavors should be out there as well as everything has a MSDS for it to include paper.

take Vg for instance http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927350

[rolygate]

The position of MSDS sheets in consumer products is debated, Marto. They are more of use for bulk transport contractors, and only for legal issues - basically a CYA exercise in most cases. The MSDS only has relevance when a fatal dose is expressed in a low mg quantity.

For example if you look at the MSDS for PG, it clearly seems to be something that should not be consumed. On the contrary, it has over 70 years of safe use and 70 years of research that shows it is harmless apart from the occasional intolerant individual. Not only does it stop us getting Legionnaire's Disease since it is used in air conditioning systems, and is therefore present in the air of many large buildings such as hospitals, it can be ingested, inhaled and injected with no risk, which is why it is used for all those purposes in medicines. It is regarded as all but inert and certainly harmless (licensed as GRAS and Acceptably Safe everywhere). However, reading the MSDS for propane-1,2,diol you would think it could be used in chemical warfare. It's a food additive and inhaled by lung transplant patients.

The MSDS for salt, water etc are basically the same: dangerous chemicals. The basic idea is that if you are a bulk transport contractor, and a truckload of it falls on an employee, you are covered because you presented documentation for the worst possible case to the fire service personnel or whoever. Anyone else can ignore an MSDS unless the toxic dose is quoted in the 100mg range or less. The toxic dose for PG or VG is about 50 gallons, as you would need to drown in it before any harm can occur.

[edit]
Note that this only applies to pharma grade PG and VG, that is, pure or almost pure materials. The lower grades such as food grade, agricultural grade and industrial grade contain contaminants in increasing percentages. You should only inhale pharma grade materials, the others are not suitable for inhalation, and not made or sold for inhalation. Part of the reason you pay good money for eliquid is that it uses pure, pharma grade materials.

[Martö]

LOL it's crazy.

Boss I need the MSDS on this BIC PEN!!

I find them as a good reference though for flashpoints and ect..

[AriM]

So the testing is simulating a "dry hit" on a "low end" device that most of us would never use.

I think the real problem are the mall kiosk and 7-11 style e-ciggs. They contain thin mylar and tin foil seals on the cartridges. It is basically unavoidable that these substances will "burn".

So for a research firm to go out and test this small cross section of PV's is utterly absurd. These tests are obviously skewed to reach a specific conclusion.

That is the problem with lab testing, you design the test to get the result you predict. That is not anywhere near the same result that a clinical trial would reach. The only real way to do this is with clinical trials on human subjects, who are active "vapers". Process this data over a 10 year span, then have it vetted by half a dozen other research groups. Anything eles is simply academic.

[mwa102464]

+1000 on that AriM

[Jbaumer]

Gram Spectural Analysis, the "10k" drug testing system usually, but can be used for testing anything liquid.
You can set the temp to what you need for vaporaizing the sample.
If the Computer attached is up to date, there will be no 15% unkown.(makes me think I should be back on my fav UFO board)

Downside, so its usually a Hospital peice of equipment.
Upside, real tests can be done, as in taking a 1ml sample from the suppliers bottle and putting it in the machine
No flushing with reagents that will contaminate the sample, no haphazard misuse of an e-cig.


This is not a difficult procedure. What I see in the test are people trying to prove E-cigs are worse than regualr cigs
I guess some people are not happy unless they are causing others misery, shame really.

well thats my 2 cents