More watts for wider coils?

[Bonskibon]

I am used to stock coils for my Toptank mini, and used the RBA a couple times, but couldn't get it how I liked it. Yesterday I built a 3mm coil 26g (Kanthal) about 10 or so wraps reading at about 1.6 ohms. I usually run the stock coils at 12 watts, but find I need more watts with the coil I built to get close to the stock coils performance. I did run the coil I built at 12 watts, but it didn't seem to evaporate the ejuice and left gunk sooner than I'm used to seeing it. So even though the two coils (stock and mine) are the same resistance is it true that wider coils would need more watts to preform like the stock coils that are smaller as far as width? I'm running my coil at 15 watts, that would be to much for me with the stock coils but seem just fine with the coil I built.

I hope this makes sense to someone.

 

[KenD]

I am used to stock coils for my Toptank mini, and used the RBA a couple times, but couldn't get it how I liked it. Yesterday I built a 3mm coil 26g (Kanthal) about 10 or so wraps reading at about 1.6 ohms. I usually run the stock coils at 12 watts, but find I need more watts with the coil I built to get close to the stock coils performance. I did run the coil I built at 12 watts, but it didn't seem to evaporate the ejuice and left gunk sooner than I'm used to seeing it. So even though the two coils (stock and mine) are the same resistance is it true that wider coils would need more watts to preform like the stock coils that are smaller as far as width? I'm running my coil at 15 watts, that would be to much for me with the stock coils but seem just fine with the coil I built.

I hope this makes sense to someone.

It's about coil mass. More material to heat up requires more power.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

 

[Bonskibon]

It's about coil mass. More material to heat up requires more power.

Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk

That's what I thought, thank you.

 

[RWDY]

More wraps & larger wire = more mass, more mass takes more power (watts) to heat up so yes this is true.

 

[gotch23]

Yes to KenD and RWDY.

My favorite is 29g in the wattage range you are talking about... well to actually way higher.
I find the performance much better, since it heats up quicker and cools down quicker, resulting
in quicker and cleaner vaporisation.

 

[Bonskibon]

Still learning the fine tuning of building.

 

[Hitmetwice]

5 or 6 wraps will surely heat up faster and should ohm out around 1ohm give or take.

10 wraps just seems like a lot to me. It would be quite weak for sure at the wattage you're running.
And require a longer draw.
Keep playing until you find what works best for you. (are you using Rayon???)haha. Cheers.

 

[Bonskibon]

5 or 6 wraps will surely heat up faster and should ohm out around 1ohm give or take.

10 wraps just seems like a lot to me. It would be quite weak for sure at the wattage you're running.
And require a longer draw.
Keep playing until you find what works best for you. (are you using Rayon???)haha. Cheers.

I do take long slow MTL draws about 5sec. I did try rayon before, but need more time and patience with that.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!
Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

Post there for feedback.

Tehnsioned Contact Micro Coil, MacTechVpr

• MacTechVpr
• Jun 25, 2015
• coil contact tensioned

▶25x7 @2.75mm= 0.7995Ω

Resistance, turns or watts alone cannot predict the outcome of performance. The geometry of the build area is your first guide to an effective coil.

Check the capabilities of your mod…Mod range | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators.

Good luck.

 

[Hitmetwice]

I was never any good with cotton, the rayon came easy for me. Just cram as much in the coil as you can and thin the tails 50-90%. Basically.

 

[MacTechVpr]

…I did run the coil I built at 12 watts, but it didn't seem to evaporate the ejuice and left gunk sooner than I'm used to seeing it..

Just a quick note for new builders hope'll save some time. It's sugars and flavoring components that gunk. They're sensitive to heat. Too much or too little power for the build will cook your juice. That's a mismatch of heat to juice availability. Also, airflow must match the juice flow or you'll get much the same. Best to find the happy center for your device combo and test the extremes of high or low power and flow from there. The geometry of the rda will tell you a lot about what it needs. If it looks wonky, it's likely to vape that way too.

Good observation @Bonskibon.

Good luck.

 

[Bonskibon]

Just a quick note for new builders hope'll save some time. It's sugars and flavoring components that gunk. They're sensitive to heat. Too much or too little power for the build will cook your juice. That's a mismatch of heat to juice availability. Also, airflow must match the juice flow or you'll get much the same. Best to find the happy center for your device combo and test the extremes of high or low power and flow from there. The geometry of the rda will tell you a lot about what it needs. If it looks wonky, it's likely to vape that way too.

Good observation @Bonskibon.

Good luck.

Have a couple of gunk juices and am used to having to use a new coil (stock) or re-wick (build) every couple of days. Don't have a problem with that, but stock coils are getting expensive so really trying to stick it out with rebuilding and getting it right this time. Your extremely helpful as I noticed in the other threads you posted. Have a lot of reading and catching up to do.

 

[sonicbomb]

26G is pretty heavy wire if you are aiming for well over one ohm and you are not prepared to put a lot more power through it. You could try using a lot less wraps and the internal diameter (2/2.5mm),as this would reduce the coil mass making it easier to bring up to heat at that wattage level. Or invest in some 28 or 30 guage wire.

 

[Bonskibon]

26G is pretty heavy wire if you are aiming for well over one ohm and you are not prepared to put a lot more power through it. You could try using a lot less wraps and the internal diameter (2/2.5mm),as this would reduce the coil mass making it easier to bring up to heat at that wattage level. Or invest in some 28 or 30 guage wire.

Thank you, been reading up on this most of the afternoon. I have 28 and 30 gauge wire as well. Going to try the 28 first as it seems a bit easier to work with than the 30. I like to get as close to 1.5 ohms as I can when building. Going to Steam Engine to crunch some numbers.

 

[sonicbomb]

Try to think of the power level dictating the wire guage and end resistance..
If you want to use a lot of wattage then you need a heavier gauge of wire to be able handle this power. Heavier wire, more mass (and possibly greater surface area), intrinsically lower electrical resistance.
If you want to use a far lower power level, then you need a much thinner wire with less mass, or your power level will not be sufficient to light it up. Thinner wire, higher resistance.
It's about having a coil mass to suit the chosen power level, not the other way around, with a regulated device anyway.

You could put 12 watts through a 0.25 ohm dual 24G coil, but it would barely vape and the ramp up would be measured in minutes.
Alternately you could put 70 watts through a single 6 wrap 30G 1.8 ohm coil, it would produce a hideously harsh vape and probably melt.

 

[Bonskibon]

Try to think of the power level dictating the wire guage and end resistance..
If you want to use a lot of wattage then you need a heavier gauge of wire to be able handle this power. Heavier wire, more mass (and possibly greater surface area), intrinsically lower electrical resistance.
If you want to use a far lower power level, then you need a much thinner wire with less mass, or your power level will not be sufficient to light it up. Thinner wire, higher resistance.
It's about having a coil mass to suit the chosen power level, not the other way around, with a regulated device anyway.

You could put 12 watts through a 0.25 ohm dual 24G coil, but it would barely vape and the ramp up would be measured in minutes.
Alternately you could put 70 watts through a single 6 wrap 30G 1.8 ohm coil, it would produce a hideously harsh vape and probably melt.

It's beginning to get clearer to me. Thank you, that explanation gave me a good mental picture. I'm a visual learner so anything I can picture in my head helps.

 

[Bonskibon]

@sonicbomb should I go for less wraps, or smaller inner diameter? Looking at doing 28g for a 1.6 coil and seems I could go either way, or will it make a difference?

 

[mcclintock]

Larger diameter and/or more wraps increases the size of the coil. For a particular wire size, a higher resistance coil is suited for and requires more power. I made a tiny coil with #26, 5.5 wraps on 1/16", .6Ω, runs best about 2.6 volts. Nice and rugged with the thick wire but puts more stress on the mod due to the load.

I find my optimum power is based on my airflow. Coils don't change the power setting much, they need to be optimized for the power which is determined by the airflow.

Now, the width of the coil does change the power a bit, if you're talking a change of spacing. I'm up about 5% with spaced coils (least gunking), had to go down a little with a perfect wrapped tensioned micro coil (worst gunking)(I finally managed to not really mess one up while mounting).

 

[Bonskibon]

Larger diameter and/or more wraps increases the size of the coil. For a particular wire size, a higher resistance coil is suited for and requires more power. I made a tiny coil with #26, 5.5 wraps on 1/16", .6Ω, runs best about 2.6 volts. Nice and rugged with the thick wire but puts more stress on the mod due to the load.

I find my optimum power is based on my airflow. Coils don't change the power setting much, they need to be optimized for the power which is determined by the airflow.

Now, the width of the coil does change the power a bit, if you're talking a change of spacing. I'm up about 5% with spaced coils (least gunking), had to go down a little with a perfect wrapped tensioned micro coil (worst gunking)(I finally managed to not really mess one up while mounting).

I'm confused, isn't 2.6 volts equivalent to 3 or 4 watts? I like to use wattage mode at around 12 with 1.6 coil. I've never done a spaced coil before and I suppose I could try with 30 gauge otherwise with the other wire I have it would be to long I think. Just trying to get one done just right and go from there.

 

[whiteowl84]

You need amperage and voltage to figure wattage. And ohm load determines amperage on a mech. Ohm load determines amperage and voltage on a regulated mod.