Another factor between the Protank and the Nova, is the "quantity" of wick. Protanks very very little wck at all, while the Nova had a long one (I know, thats what he/she said).
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New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers
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OK, I am officially sticking my neck out here! If you care about coil temp, and some evidence says you should, DO NOT USE STOCK coils that rely on silica wicks!
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So I did another test, comparing rayon and silica in a modern atty.
This time I built a coil, then used the exact same atty, mod, coil, and juice, the ONLY change was swapping out the wick. I used Ekowool braided silica which is considered to be the most premium available. (Keep in mind that stock wicks use the cheap stuff)
Test Results:
Test Porn:
Threaded the probe
Built the first wick
Ready to test:
Shows silica was fully saturated:
Type of silica used:
OK, I am officially sticking my neck out here! If you care about coil temp, and some evidence says you should, DO NOT USE STOCK coils that rely on silica wicks!
*************************************
So I did another test, comparing rayon and silica in a modern atty.
This time I built a coil, then used the exact same atty, mod, coil, and juice, the ONLY change was swapping out the wick. I used Ekowool braided silica which is considered to be the most premium available. (Keep in mind that stock wicks use the cheap stuff)
- Measured only in watts as my Vamo did not like the low resistance of the coil, so I had to use my DNA in power mode instead.
- Coils was a 6/7 wrap of SS430 around a #33 drillbit (~2.9mm) and ohmed out to be 0.43 ohms. Same exact coil used for both wicks. I just rewicked the coil.
- Did not measure fiber weight, I prepared each wick like I would have done if I was building it for myself. Cut to proper length and fluffed and tucked on both, etc.
- Juice flow was 80% for all tests.
- Airflow was 100% for all tests.
Test Results:
Test Porn:
Threaded the probe
Built the first wick
Ready to test:
Shows silica was fully saturated:
Type of silica used:
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I don't think so. Pretty much everyone who's ever tried both in the same kind of atty already knows that cellulose fibers (cotton or rayon) are much better at wicking, and it makes perfect sense that better wicking will keep a coil cooler.
Agreed, its not you old farts I am worried bout. Its the noobs buying this stuff in blister packs at the local 7-11
Seems to me that much of the raison d'être for the pod systems is that they are perceived to have a better chance of gaining PMTA approval from the FDA than any open systems (or open system components).
Given that the FDA's guidance recommends testing the aerosols for acetaldehyde, acrolein, and formaldehyde (which are just three of a couple of dozen named substances, in addition to "other constituents, as appropriate"), I would hope the pod makers who are serious have some kind of handle on this?
I only have 2, a My Von Erl which is cotton & The Rock by Boulder which is silica. They can be rewicked or recoiled with cotton or rayon. Looking at the design of the pods, not sure you could get a probe in them to measure temperature.
And my "worry" is that those purchasing stuff in blister packs from 7-11 are not here...
Ego/CE4 combos in a blister pack for a few bucks. Heck, at one time they were in vending machines.
Unrelated but not totally, I'm still holding out the hope/expectation that basic common sense will prevail. For those who may not have seen it, there's new possible hope from our fine neighbors to the north. US legislators appear to be getting their butts kicked (yet again) in that area ("basic common sense").
Besides, I've had a fear of all things "pod" since seeing Invasion of the Body Snatchers, some decades back.
@mikepetro - when do you sleep?
I would hazard a guess that those who are rebuilding their own coils at the levels you tested at are not going to use silica, especially at the resistances you tested at.
Unfortunately, taking a temperature reading on a closed system that uses a higher resistance coil and silica is going to be virtually impossible.
I wonder if one of those fancy infrared cameras that measure temps would suffice for something like that? Wouldn't be exact, but should give a ballpark guestimate.
He did measure the temp of the protank 2, two pages back. This test was to confirm fiber wick (rayon/cotton) would keep cooler with a coil of the same specs.
OK, so the Protank 2 coils were a real PITA to test.
The 40gauge thermocouples are tiny, delicate, and they fell out easily and frequently. So I got a chance to see and feel the wicks a lot while re-threading the probe. There is no doubt, the rebuilt coils with cotton held magnitudes more juice than the stock coils with silica wicks.
This may shock some tootle folks, but data is data, and this is what I measured.
Stock 2.2 ohm coil on a Protank2. Red was 5.5w, yellow was 5.0w, and blue was 6.0w
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YES! - A stock 2.2ohm coil is measuring over 500f at only 6w! Just because you are "tootle" does NOT mean you are low temp!
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The rebuilt coil made with 30g kanthal and cotton wicks fared much better.
And finally, the full data:
Just for the record, NONE of these hits tasted burnt!
Properly rebuilt coils are pretty safe, stock silica coils are NOT, at least according to Wang and Geiss.
A good TC mod and you wouldnt even have to ask these questions......
ETA: Blogged - Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum
Infrared cameras only works in an "open burn" situations, doesnt take juice and airflow into account. I use the cameras to validate DNA temps, but they dont tell the true story of all variables combined while actually vaping.
See this one where I did stock coils vs rebuilt coils on a Protank2 in a closed system while actually vaping it. Stock coils did EXTREMELY poorly in regards to high temps, where the rebuilt cotton coils did quite well.
Actual temperatures inside a Protank Mini on both VV and VW devices. | E-Cigarette Forum
Impossible, hehehehe, depends on how motivated you are!
Didnt take pics of the protank one, but the concept was very similar to this VV Nova, only I strung the cord up through the driptip on the Protank.
Sort of like this:
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Impossible, hehehehe, depends on how motivated you are!
Didnt take pics of the protank one, but the concept was very similar to this VV Nova, only I strung the cord up through the driptip on the Protank.
And I believe you're testing (or tested) under the best of possible conditions. In my initial studies in 2013 I personally reviewed hundreds of build types including my own developing tensioned m.c.'s. Arcing on conventionally wound VV's (like OEM) would all too often prove so severe it would degrade the mass of leads. A rather shocking revelation. Something that could/did happen on PT's and other clearo's as well. If so called scientific studies of vaping do not take these common instances of exceptional variability into account they will no doubt skew the averages and maximums.
I'm often intrigued whether researchers might purposefully go out looking for bad batches of coils (rather easy to do). It reminds me of the kind of crash analysis FAA conducted re Skully's Hudson landing of USA Flight 1549…repeat until we get the expected result.
Good luck.
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