Reporter Takes a Cheap Shot at Suppliers of E-Cigs??

[Sun Vaporer]

As reported here--an overall review of the e-cigs that take a cheap shot at Suppliers". In an attempt to review the e-cig, the Reporter states: "After numerous attempts to make contact with various suppliers and manufacturers and a lot of dead ends and mumbled excuses, I began to wonder if this was a valid product or not." and further goes on to state; "Only one manufacturer and distributor actually was willing to speak with me and work with me and even they have the observation that much of the current market for the devices is populated by shady no-names" The Reporter must not be a member of our Forum or really looked into all the good Suppliers we have.
Also, another statement that lacks merit is: "There are a plethora of sites based outside the US that will ship into the US if you are willing to wait 2-5 weeks for shipping". Sounds a little suspect to in my opinion. I have never waited more then a week for an order???
I wonder where this is coming from??? -- Sun See www.examiner.com/x-2041-Denver-Gadg...less-smoking-without-most-of-the-health-risks

 

[Okiki]

Sounded like he favored the njoy. He also was talking about how a battery doesnt last long but he is also an uniformed user. For someone who did research and what not would realize about how long a battery lasts.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

I wonder if he is on the njoy payroll?

Edit: Ok... I was a bit harsh originally and I am editing this for why: After my third read through the article and in an attempt to re-evaluate without the taste of insult and confusion for the run-on writing style... the information is mostly accurate when it comes to the electronic cigarette. The author and I do not research or present in the same way and I will just have to get over that.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Lacey--It begs the question as to where the Reporter got the information to report that --There are a plethora of sites based outside the US that will ship into the US if you are willing to wait 2-5 weeks for shipping-- Where did the Reporter get that misinformation??? Did the Reporter, in fact, try to contact "any other other Suppliers or is this an advent of Njoy? Is the Reporter saying between the lines "order from Njoy or you will wait 2-5 weeks for your order and no one else will speak to you but Njoy?? It just lacks merit in its entirety--Sun

Oh absolutely. Search Google for electronic cigarette. Our site comes up before njoys does and our two sites are two of the oldest e-cig sites online. So, if he had done minimal research, he would have at least attempted to contact us and he did not. I followed his links and they don't appear to be affiliate links so that can be ruled out. It is either lazy journalism or a buddy he knows asked for a favor.

Good find though. We had a good chuckle over here at how horrible the writing was for a variety of different reasons.

 

[TribbleTrouble]

Yeah, NJoy had to have paid for an article like that. It was more like an NJoy commercial than a news article.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

What I find an outrage is the statement, of many to be found-- that "that much of the current market for the devices is populated by shady no-names"--Shady no names?? That statment is an rank outrage. If the Reporter is going to make a statment lke that, it should be supported by facts, and there are none to be found in this article--Sun

 

[Liberate_Yourself]

That was a complete joke. I just had to post a comment on the article. God that guy is an idiot. I can't believe that he has probably influenced people. A scary thought.

 

[jamie]

Illustrating our wide variety of opinions I think it's one of the best ecig articles I've read.

Edited to add: I do understand why folks take offense at the whole no-name shady suppliers thing. However, while I'm very pleased with many, most, of the great suppliers we know here on the forum, that doesn't change the public view that most are simply folks at home running a website, getting, YES, no-name products from some factories in China or even a middleman or three away from that. I'm happy they do this, I respect them and admire their initiative and knowledge, I buy and recommend their products, but it doesn't change who they are retail-wise from the perspective of the mainstream public.

 

[TropicalBob]

Since this article wasn't "pro" e-smoking, it must be "anti". Nope. The reporter tried to contact manufacturers for facts and got the no-return-call kiss-off that drives writers up the wall. And no reporter will report "facts" based on any forum's content. That would be irresponsible. Few reporters will ever take information from a forum or a blog. It's usually crap.

Overall, it's not a bad article. Hey, order from E-Cig and wait a month or two with normal shipping rates applied. Order from E-Cig, as I did before they hit my "never buy from" list, and get your mislabeled package held by Customs for a month until you sign a paper saying this is for "smoking cessation," as happened to me. E-Cig lied on that shipment by saying the contents were a "plastic pipe" worth "$10". The lie got them blacklisted at Customs.

And it sickened me for the future of e-sales. Ditto for manufacturers that don't return reporters' calls for comment. What does that say about our practice? Nothing good, that's for sure.

 

[Cage]

I'm not a supplier, but it looks like a double edged scenario to me.
You could call a reporter and attempt to get the truth out there, but are you prepared to answer ALL the questions? Do you have all the right answers?
Sending an email after the fact is different than an unprepared statement and
people tend to miss the retractions buried in the back of the paper.

You do have to consider the welfare of your business and a smart supplier will want to weigh all the risks.
I think a journalist can only be as good as his sources when trying to cover a story.
If the Professor isn't willing to speak up, Gilligan gets all the press.

just my 2¢

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Sorry--but I can not agree in anyway that this article has any merit to it at all and is purely a plug for NJOY:
(1) "There are a plethora of sites based outside the US that will ship into the US if you are willing to wait 2-5 weeks for shipping"
This Reporter did not use any due diligence at all. A quick google search would have shown many US Suppliers that ship right here from the US and found that many state that they "usually ship within 24 hours"....
(2) "lot of dead ends and mumbled excuses, I began to wonder if this was a valid product or not"
The Reporter on the one hand said that he was faced with dead ends and mumbled excuses, yet on the other hand, he states that: "Only one manufacturer and distributor actually was willing to speak with me. Well what were the alleged "mumbled excuses"? In my experience, a Reporter would have reported what the "excuses" were for his or her readers if that in fact was the case. In my book these this alleged "mumbled excuses" do not exist--it simply is not plausible.
Sorry--but I for one am not buying that there was any due diligence used in advancing this article. I would agree with TB that, while the Reporter should not use a Forum to gather their work product, in the instant case, the Reporter surely neglected the many other articles written by the many other Reporters who had no problems at all contacting and talking to Suppliers.
I find it very suspect that NJOY and Smoke 51 are always getting "reported" on and their price point of the e-cig is way out of line which hurts both the product and the Consumer---That is my take on it---Sun-

 

[TropicalBob]

Oh you're not wrong about that. Njoy and Smoke51 and SmokeEverywhere are blasting press releases out. And newspapers and magazines have chopped veteran reporters and editors to the point that the papers are often relying on press releases for "news". A press release is not a report. Far from it. It's a one-sided, purely promotional presentation. If a paper relies on that for information, the resulting piece will be biased to a single manufacturer or product.

But this writer (it's not a GOOD article, by any means) says he or she attempted to contact manufacturers, who did not return calls. That's more than most papers do in today's troubled economy. And why don't major manufacturers have PR people to field press inquiries? They're making money hand over fist, yet they can't appoint someone to answer press questions? Those are SORRY manufacturers, in it for the quick buck. Shame them as much as any press report. They could help assure better artricles.

I've seen so much worse than this, that this looks like Pulitzer Prize material by comparison.

 

[Jammi98]

I actually think this is one of the more truthful articles I've seen, if he had left out the word suppliers. It sounds like he wanted to talk to a manufacturer, and that's an entirely different ball game. The way I'm reading this is that he contacted some suppliers, asked how to get in touch with the manufacturer and then got the "dead ends and mumbled excuses".

The rest of the article is spot on, especially the bit about the "fanatic anti smokers" and the pros and cons section.

 

[linkdead]

Compared with some of the quit or die reports I have read I really liked this article. If he did try to get a hold of manufacturers I am sure he got no response. I have tried to get a hold of them and had the same results. I sure hope when (not if) the US Gov. tries they have better luck or these things will get the quick ban. At any rate even with the problems he had he still gave e-cigs a thumbs up. What more do you want. That don't just happen folks. Most people would have started the bashing right there, and rightfully so.

 

[KitP]

So, now that we have a problem, let's try to fix it.

Hi, I'm Kit, the writer at the center of all the controversy in this thread.

This was originally supposed to be a product review. The first problem that I run into on that is the fact that product reviews are intended to review either a single brand and model of a device, or a series of such. Some product reviews can easily contain objective data. This PDA has a faster processor than this other PDA. There is such a HUGE variety in this market, with various interchangeable parts of differing qualities, that it's exceptionally difficult to find who makes what.

Toss in the fact that the main manufacturing is being done by companies overseas and it all becomes that much more complicated. I found no way to contact Sailebao or Ruyan directly to request information for example.

Also, as a minor note, the income from a given article in most news sources allows for approximately two to four total hours dedicated to the creation of that article at most. I wish that were not the case, but this economy is killing everybody. The fact that I am not just drop and ignoring the article indicates that I actually have interest in this entire situation beyond that of getting paid for the article.

So, given "Do a review", I need to acquire test product for review on zero budget or find a way to test it without directly acquiring the product (Like the Allio). I get a huge number of roadblocks thrown up in my direction as well. There are retailers galore, but they are all selling the same items. A product review is not about the retailer, it's about the product, so normally it's related to the manufacturer and retailer-agnostic.

In the case of electronic cigarettes though, a lot of data that I found is that the fail rate directly from the manufacturers is relatively high and thus the retailer ends up having a huge influence on the result of the end product. Then cartridges, eJuice, and differences in accessories that are actually otherwise identical make for even more complication.

That left me stuck with NJoy and SmokingEverywhere as being "Brand Names" and everybody else just reselling another brand that I cannot get in touch with the manufacturer of.

NJoy was quite happy to field all my questions and give me their side of the story.

Another company (of the two... I still can't call out names in an article as a general rule. That's why you always see "Such and such did not return our request for comments".) transferred me all over the place, left me on full voicemail, and repeatedly informed me about different people who would call me back at specific times but never did.

So, I agree that NJoy is pricey compared to others. I agree that SE is even more pricey. But given that the other retail sources I found are effectively importing product directly from a manufacturer in China that I was unable to contact and then performing varying degrees of value-addition and markup, I'm left in a bind. I can only report on the data I have.

Since the posting of the article, I've actually had a retailer from the UK offer to help me out on a followup. The information may be useful, and hopefully will result in enough data to write a followup with all the information that should be out there. Beyond that, think from the aspect of doing a product review and type "e-cigarette" into Google. Maybe then you can see why this is such a troubling issue.

I also wouldn't be completely honest if I didn't point out that along with the "Quit or Die" style fanatics on the opposing side, there are also a number of fanatics on the supporting side. If you want a good, unbiased article written, the writer needs the information to write it. Then that all gets sorted through and if you look at the information on e-cigs, you'll notice that a lot of it gets thrown out.

So, since this was originally supposed to be a product review, but all of the more reasonably priced retailers are reselling somebody else's product with value addition, combined with an inability to contact the actual manufacturers directly with any semblance of ease... are people prepared to have this go mainstream and deal with questions from both sides of the discussion? Are any other retailers, suppliers, or distributors intending to work to place these objects in brick and mortar retail stores? Is it going to become as easy to buy as walking down to your local Kwikee Mart, or is it going to remain in the shadowed recesses of must-know internet-only*?

I found two companies working to put product in the hands of people in person and on site. There are accusations out there that other retailers are "work from home/back of the car" resellers of another brand with naught but an internet presence. There is the fact that one of the two companies mentioned above seems to be more shady than any accusations against any of the small business folks. Even within the community itself, some of the most lauded retailers still get slammed by small groups or individuals and I've seen a good bit of infighting.

I can't play favorites, nor can I list off every single potential source for the devices. I don't think any person here can deny that there is a huge combination of reliable and unreliable, small, medium, and large, shady and responsible sources. When you have reliable small sources, and shady large sources, it makes things even more of a minefield.

Addressing some points:
- Shipping 2-5 weeks: "Direct from manufacturer". 10-25 business days to receive the item from China. Five business days per week. Please remember that almost all retailers will claim worst case shipping times, but that is what I have to go by when giving official numbers.
- Manufacturers: How many of the web sites out there are actually manufacturers as opposed to retailers? I get a strong impression that very few if any first tier manufacturers are actually even interested in the US. I see a lot of people importing the devices because the manufacturer will sell to whoever hands them money.
- Parts: If you have a standard device made by a Chinese company, but a cart made locally in the US, who gets credit if the cart lasts longer or works better than a cart used in a different model standard device? Who actually MAKES the eJuice? What differences exist between combinations of juice and devices? Mix and match or brand name all the way?

So, like I said: Maybe now that folks have missed the first train, I can get some proper information for a possible second one.

* Local folks have not heard of them. They are very interested, but unwilling to go online to buy it due to trust issues with "new things".

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Hi Kit and welcome!!! Thanks for stopping in and making some clarifications. I know it is appreciated! Could you tell us who gave you the "mumbled excuses" and "none responses" as we have so many good Suppliers here!! Your point is well taken that there is little knowldge of the product and we appreciate your comments. The article in and of itself was well written and very fair about the product--the issue here is really about the many Suppliers we have right here in the US that are very good and that is what stuck a cord--not the susbstance of your article--Thanks again --Sun

 

[KitP]

Hi Kit and welcome!!! Thanks for stopping in and making some clarifications. I know it is appreciated! Could you tell us who gave you the "mumbled excuses" and "none responses" as we have so many good Suppliers here!! Your point is well taken that there is little knowldge of the product and we appreciate your comments. The article in and of itself was well written and very fair about the product--the issue here is really about the many Suppliers we have right here in the US that are very good and that is what stuck a cord--not the susbstance of your article--Thanks again --Sun

I think one of the things that I should have clarified just above:
Suppliers != Retailers

A retailer sells to end users. A supplier sells to retailers. A distributor or a wholesaler sells to suppliers. A manufacturer sells to distributors and wholesalers.

When I say supplier, I'm not referring to places for retail purchase, I'm referring to trying to get in touch with the back end of the supply chain directly as an end result.

I also apologize that some of the things that were actually said in the article are overshadowing the things that are not said. The retailers from outside the US taking 2-5 weeks to ship in is what is told. The fact that there are retailers in the US and that the quote time is worst case shipping was not part of that section of the article.

Unfortunately, it still runs into "Product review is retailer agnostic" issues. -Tehcnically- by the definitions that I have to follow, nJoy makes its own brand and model. It is still physically identical to a DSE103, manufactured in the same machinery as such with a different paint on the outside of the battery, and then value-added processes are applied by NJoy per their company standards. However I was not able to get in touch with Ruyan directly for RN models, nor was I alble to even completely determine in the time I had who actually manufactures DSE models.

Given the number of attacks, I can also see why there is a bit of a gunshy attitude in some cases. Possibly you can also see why there are impressions about shady dealers and suchnot. I intentionally left some extremely negatve aspects out of my report for example. Again, it's not intended to attack or support any one specific retailer or situation.

Here's hoping for a more informative followup.

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Kit--Thanks again for your clarifications. It is greatfully appreciated and we look forward to your follow up. Again, thanks for "stepping up to the plate" !!--Sun

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Hi Kit -

Thanks for weighing in on this. I am with INSTEAD Electronic Cigarette - Buy e Cigarettes - e Cig. I did do a google search, as you requested in your post, for e-cigarette. Did you see our website as #4? Did you also see a video there from us? We would have been more than thrilled to send you in the right direction.

Please also take notice that this very forum appears as #3. I understand you are given limited funds and limited time but I am still extremely curious how your research led you to nJoy and Smoking Everywhere?

Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help you on your follow up.

 

[KitP]

Hi Kit -

Thanks for weighing in on this. I am with INSTEAD Electronic Cigarette - Buy e Cigarettes - e Cig. I did do a google search, as you requested in your post, for e-cigarette. Did you see our website as #4? Did you also see a video there from us? We would have been more than thrilled to send you in the right direction.

Please also take notice that this very forum appears as #3. I understand you are given limited funds and limited time but I am still extremely curious how your research led you to nJoy and Smoking Everywhere?

Yup. Notice the "Buy" part of your page title. That identified you to me as a retailer. Since this was intended to be a product review, I was not looking for retailers. I just looked at that site again. It's labeled directly as a blog at the very top, which generally holds that it is the "web log" (Which originates from "diary") of an individual non-authoritative source. With no time to trace the authoritativeness of sources outside registered businesses, the site was left behind.

This forum was of moderate use, but the amount of data on this forum far exceeded the time I had to look online due to the lack of structure. This forum also helped to point out that there are numerous retailers with various mixes of reviews, but also the fact that there were many mentions of the same brand and models (DSE 801, 901, and 103 for example) being sold by multiple retailers. This meant that I had to find the source of these actual items, not the retailers.

SE was on the first page of the search results. NJoy was in the local knowledgebase in the sense that local people had seen it at Flying J.

Looking at SE resulted in finding nothing but people complaining about being taken advantage of and feeling gypped. Contacting SE resulted in a runaround from hell.

Looking at NJoy resulted in generally "They are like the overpriced premium stuff, but not as bad as SE". NJoy was very happy to talk with me and send.