Taking the next step: Regulated Mods to Mech Mods

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lavanyaarora

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Hi fellow vapers,

I have been vaping for the past couple of months. I am currently at the Regulated Box mod stage. My current go-to device is the SMOK Xpro M80 Plus w/ Horizon arctic tank at 0.2 Ohms. I love huge clouds but can't loose the throat hit so I usually vape at around 60VG 50PG with 6MG nic at 60W.

As I'm learning more about these "mech mods" I am starting to get many questions that I hope to find answers for. Here are some of the questions I have:

1) Mech mods, in general, they have no chip and are direct contact devices. Why is that preferable?
2) I hear people talking about voltage drop, what is it?
3) What according to you are the top 5 mech mods? And what clones do you think are awesome.


PS: If possible link me to the product site (As some clones are different than others)

___________

Smoking is dead, vaping is the future. And the future is NOW!
 

Susan~S

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Mechs aren't necessarily preferable to APV's. Here are some pro/cons to each.

Pro's for a Mechanical APV:

  • Ability to sub-ohm. Early regulated devices were not designed to sub-ohm; recently the higher wattage regulated APV's can vape sub-ohm, but with all of that power the same effect can be obtained with normal resistance coils.
  • Durability and longevity. With no internal electronics to fail, a mech is considered to be a more durable choice over a regulated APV.
  • Aesthetics. Many prefer the simple and elegant appearance of a mechanical.
  • Simplicity. A mechanical is simply a glorified battery holder, fire button, and 510 connector.
Cons for a Mechanical APV:

  • No processor protection circuitry. This feature protects against many short circuits, reverse battery protection, over-heating, over-discharging the battery, etc. Without this feature, YOU THE USER must be constantly aware of potential dangers of short circuits. The vast majority of mechanical mods use a bottom-firing switch; IMO these may result in a potential auto-firing event if the APV is set down on its bottom or placed in a pocket. Some of these have a locking mechanism to prevent auto-firing, but who locks their fire switch each and every time they stop vaping?
  • The quality of the vaping experience will gradually and progressively decline over the course of the battery used between charges.
  • The only way to change the vaping experience is to change the atomizer (coil) resistance (ohms).

Pro's for Regulated APV's:

  • Protection circuitry against short circuits.
  • Power regulation. You can increase or decrease the voltage or wattage to suit your vaping preference. It will also keep your chosen power output constant regardless of the charge on the battery.
  • Built-in voltage and resistance meters.
  • Some regulated mods use a built-in, rechargeable (non-removeable) battery using a common USB charging cable.

Cons of regulated APV:

  • Often not as durable as a mechanical mod, because of the internal electrical components.
  • Until the advent of the more recent high wattage APV's, they could not power sub-ohm.
  • Aesthetics. Often not as physically attractive as many of the finer mechanical mods.
 

Asbestos4004

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Stick with a regulated device for now. "Not to be rude" but judging by the questions you're asking, now may not be the best time for you to get a mech. It's not a step up anymore anyway. The regulated devices available these days will perform just as good and they have some protection for the user. Stick around and read....you'll find the information you're looking for.
 

Darth Omerta

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I consider question 1 sufficiently answered! Compare the pros and cons of both and then decide which is preferable to your needs.

As for voltage drop, lets say you have a 20A battery that is freshly charged, it should fire at 4.2 volts. This is the output directly from the battery. That current must then travel through a 510 connection into your atomizer. Even if you had the purest copper connections in the world, inevitably some of that current will be "lost" on the way to the atty(not really lost, rather transferred to another form of energy). That is part of the voltage drop, another part is that in mechanical mods, there is nothing to keep the battery firing at 4.2 volts, therefore, throughout its use there is a steady decrease in the output of the battery known as sag. This makes it extremely important to be aware of the life of your battery from full charge to when its firing at around 3.6V(thats where I like to cut off my batteries to be safe).

As for my top 5 mechs, I try to stay with those that have copper contacts and firing pins. Currently I only have 3 mechs that suit my preferrences:

1. The King v2 - a solid, good looking mod with copper contacts and reverse threaded lock ring. Simple, straight forward and no issues as of yet.

2. The Hammer - Love the look of this baby! Everything is copper for the connections but due to the fact that batteries are not in line with the atty(Im assuming) along with a fair at best top cap for atty connection, this mod need to be tinkered with more so than other more straight forward designs.

3. The Maraxus - Hits really hard when its firing properly. In order to get it working optimally the plastic o-rings surrounding the firing pin and spring loaded connector on the top cap MUST be adjusted. Otherwise there is a major issue with hot button/arcing that could result in damaged batteries/damaged face and hands.


Wattage is a representation of work being done. Therefore, there is no proper answer for the wattage your unit is producing. To calculate the wattage you would need to know the voltage and the current in amps then its Watts = voltage x current


to the veterans : This was my first attempt at explaining all that stuff, if I have missed anything, worded anything incorrectly, or gotten anything wrong whatsoever, please let me know. In my head it all makes sense but I want to make sure Im not be misleading or anything! Thanks!
 

suprtrkr

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1) It used to be preferable because it was then the only way to get more than 15 watts or so. With today's high-power regulated mods, this is no longer true. Many people still like them, me included, but the bottom line is a modern, high-power mod is far more flexible and inherently safer. There are reasons to prefer mechs, but they no longer have anything to do with direct battery contact being the best power available.

2) As the battery discharges, the output voltage decreases. A full charge IMR cell makes about ~4.2v. By the time it's down to 3.6~3.5 or so, mekkies will have replaced it for a fresh battery as the vape gets anemic. Voltage drop also occurs as a function of resistance. This includes resistance in the mod itself, not just the coil. For example, copper bodied mechs exhibit less native resistance than stainless steel because copper is a better conductor than stainless, other things being equal.

3) No recommendations from me; you're not ready yet. An absolute bare minimum would be some time spent with RBAs, whether tank or dripper. With a mech, about the only way you can change anything is by manipulating coil resistance. Everything else is fixed. Obviously, this can't be done with pre-made coils. You get what the factory sends you.

4) You can change the wattage, by changing coil resistance. It also changes by itself (downwards) as the battery discharges. What you can't do is pick a wattage, build for it, and expect it to stay there. A mech will not do that. The reason you can't is because you have no control over voltage at all. The battery gives you what it has, variable with charge state, and that's all you have. Mechs are much more limited in what they are capable of doing, compared to regulated mods.

I do not mean to discourage you. I'm a mekkie, and I love them. I would welcome another player in the mech game, and I will freely teach all I know to help you get there. But there is *much* to learn before you will be able to do it safely. A thorough understanding of rebuildable atomizers and wicking issues is a prerequisite; as is basic knowledge of simple DC loop circuits; battery basics, ampacities and safety rules; and a very thorough understanding of Ohms Law. When you mech, Ohms Law is the only insurance policy you have, to keep from blowing yourself up.

All this is far more than a regulated mod holder needs to know, even if they ought to. You may decide that's more effort than you want to spend. Or we can start getting you pointed in the right direction. You make the call.
 

DingerCPA

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It took me a YEAR before I wanted to tread the mech mod waters. Per responders above, before all this new-fangled circuitry, the only way to get "MOAR POWER" was to build a low-resistance coil and slap it on top of an "uncontrolled" battery. One needs to be VERY cognizant of Ohm's Law and the specific ratings of one's battery in order to reduce the chances of something "BAD" happening.

Depending on the construct of the mod, they may or may not be direct connect. I have one mod which has a ground wire soldered in, but my other has a metal casing (which becomes my ground) and doesn't have any internal wiring. But, neither has any sort of circuitry, so they're not considered "regulated."

Even though there are regulated mods out and about, and many of these beasties can crank serious power, we still have to note the capabilities of our batteries. Just because a device is capable of driving significant power, it is still up to the source (i.e. the battery) as to whether or not this can safely be done.

I picked up a couple of mech mods more for "vapocalypse" purposes rather than for daily use. I have become quite accustomed to knowing what my charge level on my battery is as well as what resistance is sitting on my topper with my regulated mods. Even when I do use my mechs, the lowest build I currently have is about 0.8 ohms. I have decent batteries, but none which I'm willing to take any chances on, so I prefer the "safety" of a regulated mod, to keep me somewhat in check.
 

edyle

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Hi fellow vapers,

I have been vaping for the past couple of months. I am currently at the Regulated Box mod stage. My current go-to device is the SMOK Xpro M80 Plus w/ Horizon arctic tank at 0.2 Ohms. I love huge clouds but can't loose the throat hit so I usually vape at around 60VG 50PG with 6MG nic at 60W.

As I'm learning more about these "mech mods" I am starting to get many questions that I hope to find answers for. Here are some of the questions I have:

1) Mech mods, in general, they have no chip and are direct contact devices. Why is that preferable?
2) I hear people talking about voltage drop, what is it?
3) What according to you are the top 5 mech mods? And what clones do you think are awesome.


PS: If possible link me to the product site (As some clones are different than others)

___________

Smoking is dead, vaping is the future. And the future is NOW!

1: It isn't. But a mech is like a bicycle compared to a car.
If you car isn't working, it might take a while to figure out what is wrong and fix it.
With a bicycle it's pretty obvious what is wrong.
Makes for a good backup device.

I use sigelei 15 watt kick modules in mine.
Unfortunately nobody is making higher wattage kick modules; more $$money$$ to be made selling a 50 watt box mod for $50 than selling a 50 watt kick module for $10

2:
If you have a fully charged battery at 4.2 volts,
and you put that in your mech mod
and connect a meter accross the coil
and fire the coil
and the voltage accross the coil reads 3.2 volts,
then your voltage drop at that time is 1 volt (it dropped from 4.2 to 3.2)

The lower the ohm of the coil you use, the bigger the voltage drop will be.

3:
For now I've settled on the astro as my mod of choice.
It's an m21x1 threaded mod (same thread as vamo and zmax and chiyou and king); it's telescopic; comes with kick tube; tight floating centerpin

I happen to like my cheap aluminum m16 sentinel; I like the simple design, and spring loaded centerpin; can run it in super short mod; can stack multiple pieces from multiple m16's to make it longer; it's telescopic; fasttech has topcaps for it. I just don't like the thread size.

I'm still searching for a top fired mech; I've got a poldiac clone, but I'm looking for a simpler design
 
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tj99959

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    1) Mech mods, in general, they have no chip and are direct contact devices. Why is that preferable?
    Think "Timex"
    2) I hear people talking about voltage drop, what is it?
    Difference of voltage of the battery, and voltage when measured at the 510 connector.
    3) What according to you are the top 5 mech mods? And what clones do you think are awesome.
    1: Caravela
    2: Caravela
    3: Caravela
    4: Chi You
    5: Nemesis
     
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    suprtrkr

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    Currently making the same transition.. Ive researched quite a bit and want to make the jump to full mech
    Excellent! Let me be the first to welcome you to the club ;-) So.... let's get started.

    The first thing you need to learn is to rebuild attys. This is a pre-requisite for mechs. As I said, building coils in different resistances is the only practical control you have. (I'm on my tab, I can't link you. Search for it. Nothing here you can't buy on eBay.)

    1)Go online and buy a cheap dripper clone. A Patriot will do, anything that can be built with dual coils (dualies can also be built as singles.) Try not to spend more than $15 or so. I broke a few posts and lost a number of screws myself while learning how. We'll worry about tanks later, if you want. Drippers have big decks and are easy to build. Besides, even if you don't like them, a dripper is easy to re-wick to test juice flavors and whatnot.

    2) while online, you also need a short roll (25 feet is plenty to start, you're gonna use it 4-6 inches at a time) of 28 and 32 gague Kanthal A1 resistance wire. It's cheaper per foot in longer lengths, of course. $2-3 bucks a roll for the shortys.

    3) you will also need a screw-in atomizer resistance meter, $10-15 online.

    4) Off to the hardware store; 2 or 3 bucks for a 2, 2.5 or 3mm drill bit (5/64, 3/32, 7/64 inches) and 6 or 7 dollars for a small point screwdriver set. You need 0, 00 phillips and 1/16 slotted points, minimum. Tiny, in other words. You'll want a 3" pair of smooth-jaw pliers (like needle nose, but preferably wider points) and some wire cutters in the same size, 3 or 4 bucks each.

    4a) an alternative is one of the "complete coil making kits" with all this stuff in it, $15-30 or so online.

    4b) a pencil butane or larger propane torch is useful to anneal the wire. Not a requirement, but it makes life easier. Wire can be annealed on the gas stove in the kitchen for starters.

    4c) I have found an assortment of tweezers useful from the hobby store, particularly a set with spatulate points and cross handles, the kind that open when you squeeze them and close when you let off. For contact coils, I put a twisted coil in them, let the tweezers squeeze the wire together, and use my pencil butane torch to anneal them in that position.

    4d) if you are old and blind like me, but a gooseneck lamp with a magnifying glass. Get the best you can afford, it will quickly become your favorite light for everything.

    5) to the drugstore for a $3 bag of organic cotton balls. Unroll one, divide it in half long ways, and that's your wick. If you don't have a good scissors, you need one.

    While you are waiting for vape mail to bring your stuff, go online and watch several videos of coil builds. At first you're looking for general technique, not specific instructions. Hit the RBA boards here, look at the photos to getvan idea of what kinds of coils can be built and why people like them.

    Go to ohmslawcalculator.com and check it out. You know your voltage, somewhere between 4.2 and 3.5. Resistance is the coil you build, read off the atty meter you bought. Play with that some. Input a resistance and change the voltage from 4.2 down to 3.5 by 1/10th steps. See what this does to watts and amps. Set 4.2 volts (full charge) and vary resistances by 1/10ths, see how that moves. Input 4.2 volts, and 80% of your battery's ampacity, and see how low a coil you can build and the watts it will provide.

    Then build coils! Put the dripper on your regulated mod -- perfect if it also does VV mode, so you can simulate a full and partial discharge mech-- and vape it. See what you like. Subohm is not required at first, but it will be on a mech for more watts later. When you get ready, and you're confident, (and many more conversations, I'm sure) we'll go to mechs. For starters, buy a copper Nemesis clone and/or an authentic Smok Magneto (V 1, 2 or 3, all are good.) Buy at least 2 Sony VTC4 batteries-- get real ones, from orbtronic.com, rtdvapor.com or illum.com-- and a good charger, an Xtar or intellicore.

    Keep in touch. I'm sure you're going to have fun.
     

    Oobydooby

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    I've already gotten a couple builds on my royal Hunter rda... I've done a couple quad 6 wrap with just some 28 gauge Kanthal and I've been sticking to some dual coils at 10 wraps
    b8a923dd2818f4d77b86ae4d667aac26.jpg
     

    suprtrkr

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    I've already gotten a couple builds on my royal Hunter rda... I've done a couple quad 6 wrap with just some 28 gauge Kanthal and I've been sticking to some dual coils at 10 wraps
    b8a923dd2818f4d77b86ae4d667aac26.jpg
    Excellent again! In that case, set your machine up in VV mode if it has one, plug in the coil ohms in the calculator as above and run the voltage up and down on your mod, checking amps and watts on the calculator, and vaping as you go. This will give you a solid idea of what a mech is capable or, and what it is not. The key safety factor is to not overload your batteries. Never ask a battery for more than 80% of it's capacity, and don't believe the amp ratings on them. Instead, go to @Mooch 's blog and believe his bench tests. Buy good batts, dude. This is seriously important.
     
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    suprtrkr

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    As someone who is also considering a mech for a backup device Is there an advantage of a dual coil setup vs a single coil similar to a Kayfun or Subtank on an 18350 mod?
    Preference, mostly, on a 350. It's not easy to get big vape out of such a small battery. I use Foggers because I like them. I also have a Lemo2 I am very fond of. I may give up Foggers over it.
     

    Susan~S

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    Oobydooby

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