TFA Complex Recipes Air Taste

[cremonies]

When I make one flavor recipes I can taste the flavor.
When I make 2 Flavor recipes I can taste the flavors.

After that, I cant taste anything 15% or 20% total flavoring.

I use TFA flavors and I have tried multiple recipes I have found online but they all taste the same.... Sweet air.
I even made a mix of only flavors and it smelled like berry juice. it smelled so good I wanted to drink it.
mixed it at 15% and 20% but it just taste like sweet air.
Others do hot water baths and have no problem but I think its destroying the flavor. I am so lost....
All I cant is a ADV that my friend will love and I can share it with them without everyone saying it taste weak or like sweet air.
I'm thinking of just throwing away all my flavors and just going back to buying retail.

What should I do?
I ask the Wise Mixer that have spent countless hours and money perfecting their juices, give me your guidance!

supplies:
TFA flavors
Syringes
PG,VG,PGA,Nic
blue glass bottles
dark cabinet
Ultraconic cleaner

 

[buffaloguy]

Too much flavoring will equal no flavoring. Start with low percentages.

None of my juices ever go above 12% total flavoring even with 4 or 5 flavors in a mix. Most often they are below 8% total.

Distilled water will help increase flavoring throughput.

If you are using additives like ethyl maltol, lemon juice, or sweeteners.... stop. They will cause fruit flavored vapes to become flat and diminish flavor within two days of making the juice.

Switch to using concentrated flavorings in an alcohol base like vapingzone.com concentrated line or hangsen. You will get better results than pg base flavorings.

Heat, hot water bath, as you called it does NOT destroy flavor. 150°f in a crock pot for four hours is perfect. Lose the UC unless its a heated one it does nothing for your juice.

Something else you are doing is amiss.

 

[Crunktanium]

What type of tank/resistance and power setup are you testing with and how long are you steeping?

As for EM killing flavor I don't have that problem and Vinegar works wonders in certain mixes for me.

 

[cremonies]

Too much flavoring will equal no flavoring. Start with low percentages.

None of my juices ever go above 12% total flavoring even with 4 or 5 flavors in a mix. Most often they are below 8% total.

Distilled water will help increase flavoring throughput.

If you are using additives like ethyl maltol, lemon juice, or sweeteners.... stop. They will cause fruit flavored vapes to become flat and diminish flavor within two days of making the juice.

Switch to using concentrated flavorings in an alcohol base like vapingzone.com concentrated line or hangsen. You will get better results than pg base flavorings.

Heat, hot water bath, as you called it does NOT destroy flavor. 150°f in a crock pot for four hours is perfect. Lose the UC unless its a heated one it does nothing for your juice.

Something else you are doing is amiss.

Are you using TFA? I was thinking about switching to vaping zone but its a lot of money to switch to a different flavor vendor.

I also stopped with all the additives and I only use my UC now for heating but that heat is ruining my glass bottle caps. They are becoming weak and not wanting to stay screwed on.

I do have 3 bottles of vapingzone- SC and the watermelon I can clearly taste at 2% but that is also only a single flavor mix.

 

[michaelsil1]

If you post what you mixed it would help us figure out what the problem is.

 

[cremonies]

What type of tank/resistance and power setup are you testing with and how long are you steeping?

As for EM killing flavor I don't have that problem and Vinegar works wonders in certain mixes for me.

Im using a drilled out aerotank with 1.0 ohm microcoil, cotton wick, and Ill vape it at 5 volts.

my steeping ranges. I really hate the wait. But all depends on how I do it. Heat a few hours or leave it in a drawer for a week.

 

[cremonies]

If you post what you mixed it would help us figure out what the problem is.

Well Its not just one mix that is doing it. Its all of them. But here is the one that is a great example:

Strawberry 6%
Juicy Peach 6%
Blueberry Extra 8%

 

[dannyv45]

Too much flavoring will equal no flavoring. Start with low percentages.

None of my juices ever go above 12% total flavoring even with 4 or 5 flavors in a mix. Most often they are below 8% total.

Distilled water will help increase flavoring throughput.

If you are using additives like ethyl maltol, lemon juice, or sweeteners.... stop. They will cause fruit flavored vapes to become flat and diminish flavor within two days of making the juice.

Switch to using concentrated flavorings in an alcohol base like vapingzone.com concentrated line or hangsen. You will get better results than pg base flavorings.

Heat, hot water bath, as you called it does NOT destroy flavor. 150°f in a crock pot for four hours is perfect. Lose the UC unless its a heated one it does nothing for your juice.

Something else you are doing is amiss.

Excellent, excellent, excellent advice.

Well Its not just one mix that is doing it. Its all of them. But here is the one that is a great example:

Strawberry 6%
Juicy Peach 6%
Blueberry Extra 8%

Steeping is very nessessary with mixing. But my hunch is that your over flavoring. TFA is a very hard flavoring brand to work with. There is no lee way with those flavors. once you over flavor the taste is gone. You need to learn how to work with individual flavors as well as understand how flavors interact with each other when combined. So try this little exersize.

Now you mentioned that single flavors are not giving you an issue. So at this point here's what you should do. Make those flavors that your trying to combine individually then taste, steep and adjust until you get them perfect. Make 10 ml's of each. After the flavors are made and ready you are going to combine those flavors in very small batches lets say 3 - 4 mils in different flavor percentage amounts.

for example.

flavor 1 which would be your main base flavor (lets say peach) pour 2 mls into an empty bottle.

flavor 2 accent flavor to give it a little zing but not over power it (Lets say strawberry). Pour .5ml (That's point five ml's and not 5mls) into the bottle with the peach flavor, shake and taste. If its good then your on the right track if it's to much strawberry then you know you need to reduce it on the next try or if it's to weak then increase the flavor. once you have that tasting correct move on to the next flavor and repeat the process.

flavor 3 (Backnote) or just a hint (Blueberry) add .25 or less. shake and taste then make adjustments. Here we don't want to make this flavor over shadow the other flavors. We want the other flavors to be the star attraction. So you are using far less flavor then flavors 1 and 2.

The idea is to keep a perspective of the ratio between flavors

Flavor 1 is the main star so it takes the bulk of the main flavor (About 75% of total flavor)

Flavor 2 is the helper or accent that takes the second most flavor but still not nearly as much as the first (About 15%)

Flavor 3 is the back note flavor that you can hardly detect and only shows a hint of being there (About 10% of the total flavor).

Do you get the idea? It's a fly by the seat of your pants approach to combining that will show you how different flavors at different concentrations react with each other.

Write everything down on each attempt then after your done you can figure out the precentages used by the amount of each flavor used.

The problem is you don't yet know how each flavor reacts with each at different flavor levels and this little exersize will teach you this.

Also let me recommend a little reading.

Read my blogs before getting started

E-Cigarette Forum - dannyv45 - Blogs

then read hoosier's blogs.

E-Cigarette Forum - Hoosier - Blogs

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[cremonies]

Wow. Thank you so much. didnt really think about base, accent, and backnote. I was just trying to make a balance flavor.

But you are totally right about TFA being hard to work with. I wish now that I didnt spend so much money and went with a flavors that are easy to work with to start off.

Ill try the simple batches and them mix them together. need to find more bottles. my plastic ones are getting old and i think starting to leach.

I have the glass dropper ones but the caps get weak from the warm water heating the glass.

So, if i steep the single flavors, do I have to steep them again when i combine them or just warm water and a shake?

 

[michaelsil1]

Well Its not just one mix that is doing it. Its all of them. But here is the one that is a great example:

Strawberry 6%
Juicy Peach 6%
Blueberry Extra 8%

Try cutting each of those in half then see if it is better.

 

[cremonies]

Try cutting each of those in half then see if it is better.

Well I do have a batch sitting around I can cut in half and them dilute it with my nic base. Thanks.

ITs just that all the recipes I have seen that are TFA based have a total of 20% flavoring and they all taste the same to me.
Given that they really are only slight variations using practically the same flavors.

 

[dannyv45]

Well I do have a batch sitting around I can cut in half and them dilute it with my nic base. Thanks.

ITs just that all the recipes I have seen that are TFA based have a total of 20% flavoring and they all taste the same to me.
Given that they really are only slight variations using practically the same flavors.

I know it's tempting to go with the advice and recipes of others. The problem is that every ones taste is different. I just read a thread where it was recommended to put 10% koolata on top of the menthol and mint that was already in the mix. This I know for the average vaper would just about freeze them out. The person that recommended it likes an ultra overly cool vape. The person that took the advice did not like it as expected. Do you see where I'm going with this? You should rely on your own taste buds and common sense. Later as you get experience you will know that a recipe your looking at sounds good but you will be able to tell the percentages are off for your taste. You will also know how to adjust these flavors for your own taste. But for now leave the recipes alone until you get some experience working with flavors.

Also refresh your browser and re-read my previous post I made some large edits.

 

[cremonies]

Thanks will do.

 

[michaelsil1]

I know it's tempting to go with the advice and recipes of others. The problem is that every ones taste is different. I just read a thread where it was recommended to put 10% koolata on top of the menthol and mint that was already in the mix. This I know for the average vaper would just about freeze them out. The person that recommended it likes an ultra overly cool vape. The person that took the advice did not like it as expected. Do you see where I'm going with this? You should rely on your own taste buds and common sense. Later as you get experience you will know that a recipe your looking at sounds good but you will be able to tell the percentages are off for your taste. You will also know how to adjust these flavors for your own taste. But for now leave the recipes alone until you get some experience working with flavors.

Also refresh your browser and re-read my previous post I made some large edits.

Edits, OMG!


Like Danny said a lot of Recipes Suck the one he mentioned with the 10% Koolada

 

[dannyv45]

Ha Ha mike,

That seems to be all I'm doing lately is edits and reading the Inawera thread (God you guys talk a lot). Still need to edit and finish updating my blogs.

 

[michaelsil1]

Ha Ha mike,

That seems to be all I'm doing lately is edits and reading the Inawera thread (God you guys talk a lot . ). Still need to edit and finish updating my blogs.

Yep! ...................................

 

[FStopFive]

Danny, as usual, knows his stuff!

I tend to only use TFA, and absolutely agree that they offer little leeway when mixing. It's either spot on or it's not, and when you're working with 2 or more flavors at a time, it can be difficult to tell what's off. You also need to know your flavorings, as some can be overpowering at just a couple of percent, whereas others can be used more amply (juicy peach and blueberry extra or both examples of the former).

I'm a music producer, and I've always looked at DIY juice as the same as making music in the sense that every ingredient (whether a flavor in a juice or an instrument/sound in a song) is one element that contributes to something larger (the overall mix or the overall song). Think about any music you like. Doesn't matter what it is. Then imagine every sound in a song being played at the same level/volume. It would sound like utter crap. If there's vocals you wouldn't be able to decipher them over the noise of everything else. If it's purely instrumental it would sound like, well, crap.

Maybe that analogy only works in my mind, but I think the same approach can be said when making your own juice.

Try and envision what it is you're ultimately going for in your mix, and then review the recipes you have that you don't like. Chances are you're trying to give every flavor enough room when in fact what you're doing is ultimately canceling all of them out.

Lastly, don't give up man. DIY can be the ultimate frustration sometimes, but it can also be a great source of pride when you nail a recipe spot on, not the mention a huge money saver once you work out the kinks.

Hopefully any of this made sense, and some or all of it is helpful.

 

[we2rcool]

Danny, as usual, knows his stuff!

I tend to only use TFA, and absolutely agree that they offer little leeway when mixing. It's either spot on or it's not, and when you're working with 2 or more flavors at a time, it can be difficult to tell what's off. You also need to know your flavorings, as some can be overpowering at just a couple of percent, whereas others can be used more amply (juicy peach and blueberry extra or both examples of the former).

I'm a music producer, and I've always looked at DIY juice as the same as making music in the sense that every ingredient (whether a flavor in a juice or an instrument/sound in a song) is one element that contributes to something larger (the overall mix or the overall song). Think about any music you like. Doesn't matter what it is. Then imagine every sound in a song being played at the same level/volume. It would sound like utter crap. If there's vocals you wouldn't be able to decipher them over the noise of everything else. If it's purely instrumental it would sound like, well, crap.

Maybe that analogy only works in my mind, but I think the same approach can be said when making your own juice.

Try and envision what it is you're ultimately going for in your mix, and then review the recipes you have that you don't like. Chances are you're trying to give every flavor enough room when in fact what you're doing is ultimately canceling all of them out.

Lastly, don't give up man. DIY can be the ultimate frustration sometimes, but it can also be a great source of pride when you nail a recipe spot on, not the mention a huge money saver once you work out the kinks.

Hopefully any of this made sense, and some or all of it is helpful.

That analogy is SPOT ON! With any "art" (food, music, painting, jewelry - the list is endless) - the end result is never "single"! It's how the bazillions of 'singles' all play together to create the end result!

Sometimes the most tricky 'singles' are the very ones that yield the most stellar results...and that's not something ANYbody learns or controls by just tossing a few flavors in a bottle.

And let's not forget, the subtleties & nuances (of every aspect) are what separate the masters from the wannabees.

Solid knowledge is key; practice & patience are essential

 

[squee]

Well I do have a batch sitting around I can cut in half and them dilute it with my nic base.

Let me know if that works. Cuz I've got some around here I might try doing that with - not my own mixes but some of the last retail that I bought. Strawberries + Cream flavor, smells great but tastes just like you described: sweet air.

 

[dannyv45]

Let me know if that works. Cuz I've got some around here I might try doing that with - not my own mixes but some of the last retail that I bought. Strawberries + Cream flavor, smells great but tastes just like you described: sweet air.

Don't think diluting it will work in your case as the vender juice was not likely over flavored to begin with. If it's old then it has just faded over time. If that's the case try a drop or 2 of lemon juice per 10 ml. That may revive it for a week or two but it will likely fade again so vape quickly.