From what I hear lipos don't last nearly as long as let's say 18650 batteries, why is that? Couldn't they make lipos last as long? I was just wondering. Thanks!
why are LIPO batteries not as good as 18650s?
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I've seen LiPo batteries with large Mah capacity, downside just like an IMR/INR 18650, start going up in amp CDR, you lose Mah, so it is a balancing act. Still, I've messed with remote control cars and such for years on the side, and I have owned several vaping devices with LiPo packs in them, I do not trust them for high end vaping, seeing a LiPo god knows how many times go petuey in an RC Car for not other reason than hitting a bump, no thanks, don't want them near my face.
It's just from what iv herd, iv never used a lipo and i was just curios with the DNA 200 chip using lipos, if they didn't last as long however, I feel like that would be a huge step down for evolv, seeing as how people are wanting much longer batter life (myself included) but from what imfire said, it makes sense. Is that why people are kind of iffy on lipos?
You and those you are listening to have little understanding of Batteries.
mAh and Amp capabilities dictates Battery usage time
Battery life is dictated by use and abuse
The Only drawback to Lipos is the risk of catastrophic failure resulting in a fiery explosion.
Lipo batteries were invented to out perform standard battery designs.
If treated with care they are stable, look at the iStick50w, MVP3 Pro, Evic VT, all stable in the 50 to 60watt range, still one puncture or crack in the LiPo skin you are in trouble. Think with the LiPo packs manufacturers are adding to the DNA200 devices, I mean really, 900mah, if it can't match the highest safest CDR 18650s on the market, namely the LG HB6 or Sony VTC3 in mah, get a LiPo that is stable, high mah, and higher CDR, even if it means a 2 or 3 LiPo pack in parallel would balance load and extend charge, they are trying to keep the price down. Personally, I'd buy just the chipset itself, cut the LiPo connector off, and wire it to a dual battery parallel tray with a pair of LG HB6 in there, would be 3000mah and 60amps to play with then.
Are you talking about lasting as in minutes of vape time or lasting as in months before they won't hold a charge?
You must go higher voltage to get a regulated 200 watts of vape. Higher voltage in the same size means less capacity.
You vape at high wattage's and no PV sized battery lasts very long at all.
You vape at high wattage's and no PV sized battery lasts very long at all.
I wouldn't even trust one in my car, so no chance I'd trust a large capacity one near my face...
There are some DNA200 mods using dual 18650s. It cuts available power to 133W, but that's plenty for me. Should I buy a DNA200 mod, that's the kind I would get.
That's probably because somebody is comparing lipos used in a high power device to 18650's in a low powered device.
a chip such as a dna200 doesn't know or care if it's connected to a lipo battery or an 18650 imr battery; it only cares about the voltage and amp draw.
Yep 100 watts will drain a battery more than 2 times as fast as 50 watts will. I say more than 2X as fast because as the current draw of a battery goes up the mah goes down.
No, it's because somebody didn't compare a multi-cell lipo pack to a single 18650.
The 900 mAh 3S lipo pack is a multi-cell lipo battery pack. Despite having multiple cells in a single battery pack, it's only comparable to a single 18650 in life per charge (It's still a little less, but it's comparable). If you use multiple 18650s to get higher voltages, such as is found in every 100+ watt 18650 mod on the market, the 900 mAh lipo has less than half the battery life per charge. If you're running that lipo at high wattages that result in high amp draw then the battery isn't going to last a full day without needing a recharge. A dual 18650 mod will easily last a full day and a lot of people can get two days of use out of a single charge.
There are some very good reasons why the Tesla car is powered by 18650s and not lipos. The 18650s are safer and more efficient.
LiPos really are the reason i haven't bought a DNA200 device yet and holding off to see how the 18650 versions will pan out.
Can't easily swap them in any of the devices i have seen thus far, and once we will see Lipos in casings that can easily detach from the main portion of the device, it will still leave another problem - won't know anything about the cells being used.
2700-3600mah of the cells currently being used, likely wont get me through a day, and i'm a 35W vaper.
Think that Chinese manufacturer that just hotglued the 510 connection in place, is going to worry about the quality of battery they use? hmm...
Maybe you got a decent battery, or perhaps you got the Efest equivalent in LiPo form.
I am confident that down the road we find more sources for good cells that lend themselves well to vaping, or there will be more manageable standardized casings and connectors or vendors with reputable stock quality, but for now it seems a bit like an inconvenient hack with the possibility of danger attached to it.
Can't easily swap them in any of the devices i have seen thus far, and once we will see Lipos in casings that can easily detach from the main portion of the device, it will still leave another problem - won't know anything about the cells being used.
2700-3600mah of the cells currently being used, likely wont get me through a day, and i'm a 35W vaper.
Think that Chinese manufacturer that just hotglued the 510 connection in place, is going to worry about the quality of battery they use? hmm...
Maybe you got a decent battery, or perhaps you got the Efest equivalent in LiPo form.
I am confident that down the road we find more sources for good cells that lend themselves well to vaping, or there will be more manageable standardized casings and connectors or vendors with reputable stock quality, but for now it seems a bit like an inconvenient hack with the possibility of danger attached to it.
I agree. Altho all I've used so far have been LiPo, I treat them as if they're of low quality.
In my case, I'm doing as good or better than the people vaping in my area that go to the local vape shops that are fully stocked with Clone Everything. A good Efest in my I-30 would be better than the sad stuff I see.
Id rather have an Efest than a Trustfire...
That said there are a number of people using Lipo in DIY boxes. Most source their packs from local radio control hobby shops. I currently have parts to build two more raptor 120w boxes and am debating making one of them with a Lipo battery.
That said there are a number of people using Lipo in DIY boxes. Most source their packs from local radio control hobby shops. I currently have parts to build two more raptor 120w boxes and am debating making one of them with a Lipo battery.
there is a lot of misconception about what lipo batteries are. first off the "LIPO" refers to the battery technology itself. they are Lithium Polymer cells. and for any person why says they would not trust a lipo near their face probably should toss out their cellphone. the vast majority of cell batters in modern phones are lithium polymer.
the lipo batteries themselves are physically more fragile than something like an 18650 because of their intended use. lipo packs are internal only and dont need a rigid shell because they should rarely if ever be outside the product so there is little risk of physical damage.
from an output standpoint lipos have an advantage because you can connect more of them in series given the same physical size. most DNA200 mods are running 3 cells in a smaller form factor than is common for most dual 18650 setups. going with a three cell setup allows mods to output a higher maximum wattage than is possible with any 18650 currently available while remaining at a safe (and comfortable) temperature.
when looking at capacity that is also misleading. if you have a 3 cells of 1000mAh lithium polymer batteries the total capacity is MUCH higher than you would have with a 1000mAh 18650 (think of it more like 3x1000mAh). in addition, because the load is shared across 3 cells the strain on each individual cell is much lower leading to improved efficiency. if you are vaping at 100-150W going with a dual 18650 mod will be more convenient because you can easily swap out batteries when low instead of waiting for the mod to charge. however, if you are using something like a DNA200 with 3x900mAh cells and are vaping under 100W you should find that the stamina of the mod should be more than sufficient.
quality is also a factor. the 25r, VCT4 and 5 are excellent batteries. for an apples to apples test you would need to compare them against similar quality lipo packs. given that they havent matured at the same rate as 18650s have this is more difficult to do. the 18650s have enjoyed great success and development due to advantages such as their swappable nature and use across more devices than just vaping hardware. just as early 18650s needed to be developed to the point they are today for use in high drain applications the same is true for lipo cells. we have reached the end of the line for what is possible using 18650 batteries unless they benefit from a huge leap in the foreseeable future. however, as we want to vape lower resistances at higher wattages for longer times the only solution is to switch to lipo cells. hopefully the R&D research time doesnt lag too much behind consumer demand.
the lipo batteries themselves are physically more fragile than something like an 18650 because of their intended use. lipo packs are internal only and dont need a rigid shell because they should rarely if ever be outside the product so there is little risk of physical damage.
from an output standpoint lipos have an advantage because you can connect more of them in series given the same physical size. most DNA200 mods are running 3 cells in a smaller form factor than is common for most dual 18650 setups. going with a three cell setup allows mods to output a higher maximum wattage than is possible with any 18650 currently available while remaining at a safe (and comfortable) temperature.
when looking at capacity that is also misleading. if you have a 3 cells of 1000mAh lithium polymer batteries the total capacity is MUCH higher than you would have with a 1000mAh 18650 (think of it more like 3x1000mAh). in addition, because the load is shared across 3 cells the strain on each individual cell is much lower leading to improved efficiency. if you are vaping at 100-150W going with a dual 18650 mod will be more convenient because you can easily swap out batteries when low instead of waiting for the mod to charge. however, if you are using something like a DNA200 with 3x900mAh cells and are vaping under 100W you should find that the stamina of the mod should be more than sufficient.
quality is also a factor. the 25r, VCT4 and 5 are excellent batteries. for an apples to apples test you would need to compare them against similar quality lipo packs. given that they havent matured at the same rate as 18650s have this is more difficult to do. the 18650s have enjoyed great success and development due to advantages such as their swappable nature and use across more devices than just vaping hardware. just as early 18650s needed to be developed to the point they are today for use in high drain applications the same is true for lipo cells. we have reached the end of the line for what is possible using 18650 batteries unless they benefit from a huge leap in the foreseeable future. however, as we want to vape lower resistances at higher wattages for longer times the only solution is to switch to lipo cells. hopefully the R&D research time doesnt lag too much behind consumer demand.
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