Microfiber and Braided Fiberglass Cartridge Filler - E-Cigarette Forum

Mach10X · 07-18-2009, 01:54 PM

Got this idea while reading through the "Cartridge Filler" Thread.

I'm new to vaping but I've been a scientist for many years now. The world is my laboratory. Someone mentioned braided fiberglass earlier and I have to agree with him. Liquid candles use ultra high grade paraffin oil, the better candles include fiberglass wicks.

An assortment of wicks:

Capillary action draws liquid up the bundle, fiberglass strands such as this are chemically inert, though can cause damage if dust in inhaled, higher quality fiberglass wicks are dust-free and durable, made of thermal glass such as to not melt under the heat of a small flame. A length of braided fiberglass of precisely the right diameter would work splendidly in a cart, but you'll be hard pressed to find the exact size you need as each cart varies.

My second idea is polyester based. I understand that polyfill is popular but even high quality fiberfill is not very good as a wick. Most modern sports or workout clothing is designed from microfiber polyester and polayamide weaves and has excellent wicking properties. In clothing this is used to draw moisture (sweat) away from the skin, though this is counter productive (sweat evaporates on the skin to cool the body, the same way that an air conditioner evaporates freon or other liquid to cool air). Nonetheless, woven microfiber would be my first choice (microfiber is made from extremely small polyester fibers). The type of weave will further improve the wicking abilities. I'll need to perform tests to see if the microfiber locks the moisture too well for the atomizer to be able to pull the moisture out of the fibers (shouldn't be a problem, I suspect).

Close up of a single microfiber thread, the star shaped core is polyester, the wedges are polyamide (a type of nylon):

Here's some more info on microfiber taken from an article on the web:

Quote:

Microfiber is a continuous filament fiber, which is actually a combination of two fibers: polyester and polyamide (a nylon byproduct). The interlocking composition of the two fibers is what makes microfiber so unique and adept at attracting dirt. Polyester and polyamide are woven together to form a pie-shaped pattern, as seen in this 1,000 times magnified photo above.
A very specific manufacturing process gives microfiber its signature shape, as David Goldberg, vice president of operations of Leading Edge Products, explains. “The two fibers are squeezed together, then pushed out through a star-shaped nozzle,” he says. “The fibers are then treated mechanically and/or chemically with heat and pressure. This action causes the two substances to separate due to differences in surface tension.”
This structure creates the small sharp edges, gullies and grooves ideal for cleaning, for moisture capillary action and retention of particles.

Basically on a very tiny scale this star and wedge design creates lots of surface area and little channels by which liqui naturally is pulled up, as the atomizer "drinks" liquid at the top, the liquid will naturall move up to fill in the missing liquid, the very definition of a wick.

It'll be a while until I can start experimenting. Any of you who want to try out various microfiber products please post your results here. I'm going to see if I can get in touch with some microfiber manufacturers to see about getting bundles of microfiber thread (imagine a bundle of firewood), that way all the wicking channels are parallel, I may also ask about braided microfiber rope, as I've been unable to locate braided microfiber anywhere on the net.

jimvinny · 07-18-2009, 11:04 PM

Would you think that cutting up a Nike Dri-fit shirt, and rolling a cartridge filler out of that would work? I've considered that ever since I started thinking about re-packing cartridges, but don't really know if it would work.

Mach10X · 07-19-2009, 08:25 AM

Yeah, I was going to try that, but I was going to start with one of the "dreadlocks" off of one of these types of Microfiber Carwash Mitts:

Or even a microfiber "rope" from a microfiber mop:

My thinking was that the braided material would be a great density to start with. Just cutting a square from a trainer microfiber shirt may be a waste of a shirt (unless the shirt is unwearable as is). I may just go to WalMart (or other super Department Store) and get an assortment of kitchen microfiber towels (waffle weave towel is interesting) as well as various types of microfiber (mf) towels from the automotive section (wooly mf, polish/finish mf).

jimvinny · 07-20-2009, 04:54 AM

It's basically unwearable, I wouldn't consider cutting it up much of a loss. Maybe I'll give it a go, just for arguments sake.

chad · 07-20-2009, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach10X

...fiberglass strands such as this are chemically inert, though can cause damage if dust in inhaled, higher quality fiberglass wicks are dust-free and durable, made of thermal glass such as to not melt under the heat of a small flame.

Now I think this would be a very cool "advance" in e-cigs. I've always felt weird about the fiberfill in carts. I have this back of the mind worry that I might overheat my atty on a manual PV someday and melt the poly ever-so-slightly. I have no desire to "smoke" that stuff. The fiberglass would not only wick better but also not degrade.

I've thought about using hemp sliver or hemp rope in my carts. What do you think about the wicking action of those substances. Organic hemp as cart filler just sounds like a good idea (natural and all) but I'm not sure how well it would work.

Mach10X · 07-20-2009, 08:43 AM

Hemp was another one of the substances I was thinking of, properly prepared hemp "wool" is quite absorbent, most of the fibers in hemp and other plants are used in the distribution of moisture to the various parts of the plants. Once dried out, however, I'd imagine that a lot of these properties will have diminished. I'm no expert on plant fibers, so I'll have to do some reading. If you want to experiment at home what you can do to compare various matrials is to set up some tests with measurable results.

Ok I stopped a minute there to think up a quick experiment that will yield some usable data, I'll be using the word weight instead of mass to make things easier to follow:

SAFETY NOTE: Handling nicotine liquids can be dangerous, regardless of nicotine concentration. Please be mindful of pets, children, and other adults, clean up after yourself when done! Consider wearing surgical gloves. Wash off any e-liquid that comes into contact with your skin immediately.

Materials: Empty (cleaned) e-cartridge, low nicotine e-juice, electronic/jewelers scale, materials to test.

Procedure:

1. Weigh an empty cartridge
2. measure out similar amounts of filler material into a cartridge (cleaned) to a density you feel would hold liquid well and simulates the density original batting.
3. Weigh the loaded cartridge (dry) and calculate the weight of the filler you used.
4. Add drops of liquid until fully loaded with liquid, tap cartridge to shake off any excess liquid. (use low nicotine or NO nicotine e-juice to prevent dosing yourself with large amounts of nicotine!)
5. Measure the weight of the juiced cartridge, subtract to find the weight of just the liquid. Divide the "liquid only" weight by the weight of the "filler only" weight to determine grams (or oz) of liquid absorbed per gram of filler.
6. Smoke the device until the cart runs dry, may want to consider mouthing smoke rather than inhaling.
7. Measure the weight of the "dry" cartridge with spent filler material, calculate the weight of the liquid remaining (total weight minus cart and filler *dry* weight). This will tell you how much liquid is still trapped in the filler but unable to pulled from it by the atomizer. Take this "trapped liquid" weight and divide by weight of the total liquid you began with (step 5). This will give you a decimal answer such as .35 which would equal 35% or 35% trapped liquid. That's the amount of liquid the filler traps and will not let go of to the atomizer. A lower number is good here.

This should roughly tell you how much USABLE liquid you can vape off of that cartridge, considering that there will inevitably be some liquid left that the vaporizer can't pull out refilling the cart will take less liquid than the initial fill.

The main values we get from this experiment are the filler weight to liquid weight ratio, and mainly the USABLE liquid value, ie the weight of liquid the vaporizer can pull out of the filler. A higher value will mean more smoking time, or in some cases some materials will give up liquid more easily and result in more vapor per puff. Some absorbent materials "TRAP" moisture rather than "WICK" moisture. A tampon, then, would make a poor wick.

Also take note of any problems or other observations such as liquid coming out of the mouth piece, etc.

Let me know what you think!

Mach10X · 07-28-2009, 10:43 AM

Alrighty, I have my stuff...I've been vaping happily now for a few days....lots of flavors...the original batting in my carts seems like it will be out of commission within a month...maybe even a couple of weeks before it needs replacing. I'll be experimenting soon. Anyone else interested please PM me or post results here.

ccure · 07-28-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach10X

Alrighty, I have my stuff...I've been vaping happily now for a few days....lots of flavors...the original batting in my carts seems like it will be out of commission within a month...maybe even a couple of weeks before it needs replacing. I'll be experimenting soon. Anyone else interested please PM me or post results here.

Would you post your results soon? I would like to see them. I am waiting for some fiberglass membranes myself and would be trying them as filler material.

Safira · 07-28-2009, 01:46 PM

Funny you should mention candle wicks because I keep thinking about those too. They do make some out of hemp, but I just keep wondering if the way the fibers are braided would help with the wicking action of the juice. The braiding helps with the flame and wick the fuel to the fire, I just wonder if it would be a better core to wick the juice to the atty.

It's just something I've always wondered if braiding the fibers a certain way would make a better material.

Mach10X · 07-29-2009, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccure

Would you post your results soon? I would like to see them. I am waiting for some fiberglass membranes myself and would be trying them as filler material.

Well since I've generated some interest, I'll head down to Wally World on Thursday night (July 30) and pick up some fiberglass wicks and various microfiber cloths (had to replace a stolen iPhone so no money until then!). I'll need to see about ordering some microfiber string/rope however, that may take a while.

07-19-2009, 08:25 AM	#3
Mach10X Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 50 Tweet this post!	Yeah, I was going to try that, but I was going to start with one of the "dreadlocks" off of one of these types of Microfiber Carwash Mitts: Or even a microfiber "rope" from a microfiber mop: My thinking was that the braided material would be a great density to start with. Just cutting a square from a trainer microfiber shirt may be a waste of a shirt (unless the shirt is unwearable as is). I may just go to WalMart (or other super Department Store) and get an assortment of kitchen microfiber towels (waffle weave towel is interesting) as well as various types of microfiber (mf) towels from the automotive section (wooly mf, polish/finish mf). Last edited by Mach10X; 07-19-2009 at 08:31 AM.

07-20-2009, 08:43 AM	#6
Mach10X Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 50 Tweet this post!	Hemp was another one of the substances I was thinking of, properly prepared hemp "wool" is quite absorbent, most of the fibers in hemp and other plants are used in the distribution of moisture to the various parts of the plants. Once dried out, however, I'd imagine that a lot of these properties will have diminished. I'm no expert on plant fibers, so I'll have to do some reading. If you want to experiment at home what you can do to compare various matrials is to set up some tests with measurable results. Ok I stopped a minute there to think up a quick experiment that will yield some usable data, I'll be using the word weight instead of mass to make things easier to follow: SAFETY NOTE: Handling nicotine liquids can be dangerous, regardless of nicotine concentration. Please be mindful of pets, children, and other adults, clean up after yourself when done! Consider wearing surgical gloves. Wash off any e-liquid that comes into contact with your skin immediately. Materials: Empty (cleaned) e-cartridge, low nicotine e-juice, electronic/jewelers scale, materials to test. Procedure: 1. Weigh an empty cartridge 2. measure out similar amounts of filler material into a cartridge (cleaned) to a density you feel would hold liquid well and simulates the density original batting. 3. Weigh the loaded cartridge (dry) and calculate the weight of the filler you used. 4. Add drops of liquid until fully loaded with liquid, tap cartridge to shake off any excess liquid. (use low nicotine or NO nicotine e-juice to prevent dosing yourself with large amounts of nicotine!) 5. Measure the weight of the juiced cartridge, subtract to find the weight of just the liquid. Divide the "liquid only" weight by the weight of the "filler only" weight to determine grams (or oz) of liquid absorbed per gram of filler. 6. Smoke the device until the cart runs dry, may want to consider mouthing smoke rather than inhaling. 7. Measure the weight of the "dry" cartridge with spent filler material, calculate the weight of the liquid remaining (total weight minus cart and filler dry weight). This will tell you how much liquid is still trapped in the filler but unable to pulled from it by the atomizer. Take this "trapped liquid" weight and divide by weight of the total liquid you began with (step 5). This will give you a decimal answer such as .35 which would equal 35% or 35% trapped liquid. That's the amount of liquid the filler traps and will not let go of to the atomizer. A lower number is good here. This should roughly tell you how much USABLE liquid you can vape off of that cartridge, considering that there will inevitably be some liquid left that the vaporizer can't pull out refilling the cart will take less liquid than the initial fill. The main values we get from this experiment are the filler weight to liquid weight ratio, and mainly the USABLE liquid value, ie the weight of liquid the vaporizer can pull out of the filler. A higher value will mean more smoking time, or in some cases some materials will give up liquid more easily and result in more vapor per puff. Some absorbent materials "TRAP" moisture rather than "WICK" moisture. A tampon, then, would make a poor wick. Also take note of any problems or other observations such as liquid coming out of the mouth piece, etc. Let me know what you think! Last edited by Mach10X; 07-20-2009 at 12:39 PM.

07-28-2009, 10:43 AM	#7
Mach10X Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 50 Tweet this post!	Alrighty, I have my stuff...I've been vaping happily now for a few days....lots of flavors...the original batting in my carts seems like it will be out of commission within a month...maybe even a couple of weeks before it needs replacing. I'll be experimenting soon. Anyone else interested please PM me or post results here. __________________

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07-18-2009, 11:04 PM	#2
jimvinny Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 26	Would you think that cutting up a Nike Dri-fit shirt, and rolling a cartridge filler out of that would work? I've considered that ever since I started thinking about re-packing cartridges, but don't really know if it would work.

07-20-2009, 04:54 AM	#4
jimvinny Full Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 26	It's basically unwearable, I wouldn't consider cutting it up much of a loss. Maybe I'll give it a go, just for arguments sake.

07-28-2009, 01:46 PM	#9
Safira Full Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Plainfield,IL Posts: 103	Funny you should mention candle wicks because I keep thinking about those too. They do make some out of hemp, but I just keep wondering if the way the fibers are braided would help with the wicking action of the juice. The braiding helps with the flame and wick the fuel to the fire, I just wonder if it would be a better core to wick the juice to the atty. It's just something I've always wondered if braiding the fibers a certain way would make a better material.