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Thread: Ask the OLDIES!!

  1. #21
    Super Member ECF Veteran jamvector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keyzygirl View Post
    Hey Jam,I got a sticky,I got a sticky!!


    About time you got a little recognition for all you've done around here Did you consider the downside though; "Ask the oldies" = Keyzgirl is an OLDIE!

    Keep up the great work, we all love ya keyz

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  2. #22
    Moved On Verified Member
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    Congrats Kezygirl for making Sticky Stardom!

    I have a question which I am hoping Jamvector can help out with. So I have a buddy that received a kit and started vaping on the batts right out of the box. These were the newer 4-hole auto regulars and both lasted about 3 hours using some prefilled Wow 555 cartos. He placed them on the recharger the next day and noticed that they only stayed charged for about 20-30 minutes. After a couple of day he called me and asked if this was normal. My reply was, "No, they should last around 3 hours depending on use".

    I told him to bring the new batts along with his charger over to my place. I gave him my P/T and one of my original (4 mos old) 3-hole starter auto regulars which still work fine.

    I drained down his batteries which took about 20-30 minutes and placed them on my charger. Once charged I took off the first batt and it only lasted 20-30 minutes, same with the 2nd batt. I put my XL Manual on his charger, than one of my other original 3-hole auto regulars as well, they both worked fine and lasted the standard time.

    So his charger appears to work fine, my batts charged fine, but his new batts crap out after 20-30 minutes on either charger.

    I contacted V4L, they shipped out 2 more newer auto regular batts which I placed on the charger immediately, both showed green so I removed them. They both lasted about 4.5 hours, but after being placed on the chargers they only last 30-45 minutes after a charge.

    I don't want to hit V4L up anymore over this, but it is strange. I gave them to my buddy, shrugged my shoulders and wished him the best of luck. I also told him not to give up hope and if he has a chance he might want to look into an XL Manual.

    So Jamvector, I've read up a lot on batts at Battery University but can't figure out what the issue is. There is one thing I have noticed which is odd, after charging one of my batts on my charger that if I remove it then put it back on the charger the indicator light will show it is already fully charged. But if I take that same fully charged battery and place on my buddy's charger it lights red and begins charging for another hour. This is true for all the batteries when switched between the chargers.

    Any ideas as to why this is or how I can get any of the 4 newer auto-regulars to charge and last a couple of hours? I still have the original ones and plan to ship them back to V4L, but thought I might be able to at least figure out the problem.

    I almost want to say that it's as if they are indicating they need recharging, but haven't drained enough to kick in a full charge. They work like a champ for those 20-30 minutes, then blink out.

  3. #23
    Super Member ECF Veteran jamvector's Avatar
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    Hey Snowdragon, this is a very strange problem. Here is a link to a technical note that addresses LiIon charging circuits in detail: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/gr...n/en028061.pdf. Unfortunately, I don't know the charging algorithm used in the V4L chargers, but I suspect what you have deduced is true: The battery has convinced the charger that it is fully charged causing the charger to cutoff charging current to the battery. This is accomplished in stage 4 on page two of the link, in that the battery current demand drops below the charger cutoff, charger monitors reduced charging current demand from the battery, switches out of charge mode and lights the "charge complete" indicator. If this happens below 0.7C, it would roughly correlate to the 20-30 minutes of operation these batteries are exhibiting after coming off the charger. You have confirmed both chargers function, and your battery is fine, and furthermore, that the replacement batteries were ok until an attempt was made to recharge them. The other possibility is that the new batteries are not producing the response expected by the older charger's charging algorithm, and in essence, could be incompatible. Do you have a PCC, USB, or 12V charger you could try? It could just be the vintage of the charging algorithm of the AC chargers, which is what I assume you have being trying to use. More likely though, is that there is a subtle change in the batteries that make them incompatible with the charging algorithm in the chargers.

    Adrenalynn may have better insight than me on this one, but that is about all I can think of at this hour.

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  4. #24
    Moved On Verified Member
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    Thanks for the hit back jamvector I appreciate it. I keep wondering if there is a way to short out the battery and see if it resets without killing it. From what I've read leaving it on the charger after the green light indicator show it fully charged won't do anything and in fact my actually weaken the battery. I do know with other applications where resistance builds up a good short will allow a path for the resistance to go and allow proper charging to occur.

    I agree it is definitely strange since all my other batts charge just fine off both, but only the new auto regs won't.

    I must say the new auto regs are a great little batt and the 4th draw hole makes vaping effortless.

  5. #25
    ECF Guru ECF Veteran keyzygirl's Avatar
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    I admit I didnt read all of this,late for work,but unplugging the charger and plugging it back in while the batt is connected sometimes helps.
    Its nice to be important,but its more important to be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SnowDragon View Post
    So Jamvector, I've read up a lot on batts at Battery University but can't figure out what the issue is. There is one thing I have noticed which is odd, after charging one of my batts on my charger that if I remove it then put it back on the charger the indicator light will show it is already fully charged. But if I take that same fully charged battery and place on my buddy's charger it lights red and begins charging for another hour. This is true for all the batteries when switched between the chargers.
    I have a similar but different scenario, I'm new so I thought it was maybe normal? With either Wall or USB charger, if I use the battery the first time the charger light turns green, the battery doesn't last very long. So I have a two step process -- once it turns green the first time I disconnect the battery and then screw it back in -- the light immediately turns red again and it charges for another 1-2 hours. At this point (after "two" charges) I have a normal working battery. Perhaps this would help your friend? I certainly wish I didn't have to do it but I've already gotten used to it.

  7. #27
    Super Member ECF Veteran jamvector's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knightofcups View Post
    I have a similar but different scenario, I'm new so I thought it was maybe normal? With either Wall or USB charger, if I use the battery the first time the charger light turns green, the battery doesn't last very long. So I have a two step process -- once it turns green the first time I disconnect the battery and then screw it back in -- the light immediately turns red again and it charges for another 1-2 hours. At this point (after "two" charges) I have a normal working battery. Perhaps this would help your friend? I certainly wish I didn't have to do it but I've already gotten used to it.
    It certainly seems the charging logic is misinterpreting the battery logic; what you are doing Knight may very well help Snowdragon's problem - certainly worth a try, also try what Keyz recommended. Snow, the battery reset can only be accomplished by draining it to a completely dead state. To do this, I would advise vaping it - even it is blinking - until it no longer blinks (this is obviously easier with a manual as you can just hold down the button). You need to have a carto attached to provide a resistive load to drain the battery - the LED draws very little current and would take forever to drain. I would not recommend a direct short, as it could affect the logic board in the battery. You can measure the voltage between center and outside ring, it should be below 3V when dead, max of 4.2V when fully charged.

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  8. #28
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    I appear to be having the same problem... My two auto batteries will not hold a charge any longer. I have only had the since Wednesday and they worked fine until yesterday, but now when I put them on the charger, they only charge for about 1 1/2 - 2 hours and then go dead almost immediately. On top of that, my PCC does not seem to work. I attach the dead battery and turn it on per instructions, and it just shuts itself down and does nothing.

    I have a ticket in, so we will see. I have a manual battery that seems to be fine, I asked if they would just swap out the autos if this is a current issue with manuals since like both about the same.

  9. #29
    Super Member ECF Veteran jamvector's Avatar
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    I believe the auto batts have a different logic board than the manuals due to switching circuitry; has anyone seen this phenomenon on manual batts? If not, then I think the problem is with the newer autos they are selling. Perhaps the reason I have never seen this is that I only use manuals - the most recent XL manual I got 3 weeks ago works on all my chargers of various vintages, including the PCC I had bought in January - never seen anything like this at all.

    Please keep this thread updated with news from V4L support. I feel very bad for you new guys experiencing this, it is not normal for V4L hardware to have these kind of systemic problems.
    Last edited by jamvector; 11-15-2010 at 04:19 PM.

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  10. #30
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    I had a feeling that this might be a model specific issue and fully agree with you Jamvector. I have tried Keyzy and Knights suggestions as well on different outlets in the house. I guess I will keep one on me for a couple of days and draw on it from time to time. Trying to drain it all the way down via the l.e.d. might take awhile but it's worth a try.

    Indeed when I unplug and replug the charger or battery it goes back into charge mode but does not extend the operational life longer than 30 minutes max. I repeated this procedure 8 times in one day just to check on both chargers.

    We'll see what happens if I can get a batt to fully drain by ghost vaping and will report the results. If I can get it to drain completely I'll give it an 8 hour charge.

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