The costs of running this huge site are paid for by ads. Please consider registering and becoming a Supporting Member for an ad-free experience. Thanks, ECF team.


Published by Tommy-Chi in the blog Tommy-Chi's blog. Views: 899


#1) The Next 90 Days - Stage One
#2) The Following 90 Days - Stage Two

Cover all in STAGE ONE over the next 90 days, then start on STAGE TWO.

It is really that simple. We are trying to help you build out out supplies for 10 to 20 years in 180 days (6 MONTHS MAX).

YOU must ask or know what your vaping plans are; what is my "vaping style," and do I have enough on hand to get me through the next 10 to 20 years if I plan to continue vaping and supplies are cut off?

YOU are going to be responsible for your own inventory and preparation of vapable e-liquids. There will be few websites and few stores that can help you.

This ride DOES NOT end until 2018 when we will see the full extant of the FDA Regulations.



The only time that selling old stock to buy new stock makes any sense is if we are talking about rotating out aged nicotine and pg/vg. I'll be engaging in this with ppl who vape, who are in need of supplies. I'll get rid of old stock at a 10% to 20% discount from my list price, and replace it with new stock as long as availability and price are reasonable. When the ban hammer falls on nicotine, I want to have the most fresh stock that I can get.

On Hand
I have 4500ml of Nude Nicotine Armor v1/v2 at my folks place and 3500 ml of Nude Nicotine Armor v1/v2 at my place. All are being stored in freezers to reduce oxidation and extend the life of the nicotine out beyond 10 years.

What to Buy
I'm buying Nude Nicotine Armor v1 and v2(in amber glass w argon gas) in 125ml to 250ml bottles. The smaller bottles mean that I do not have to break down the liquids when I open them. This is the recommended practice on the Nude Nicotine website.

Nobody can afford to buy all things at once. Nicotine is the most important item in Stage One. Keep ordering liters of nic every month (or better) until supplies are cut off.

Order all stock in 125ml and 250ml BOTTLES so that you do not have to break open large bottles of nic base that you do not plan to use immediately. We are trying to have all supplies last for more than 10 years.

If you buy nicotine base in plastic bottles, you will need to repackage it for long term storage due to the leeching of chemicals from the plastic.

Where to Buy
There are several providers of nicotine base. Nude Nicotine is just one of many. You might also contact: Wizard Labs, Essential Depot, Bull City Vapor, Bulk Apothecary, NicotineRiver, MyFreedomSmokes...

Notes On Nicotine
- Oxidation does NOT affect the strength of nicotine. It only alters the color (flavor also may change to more peppery). However, consumers tend to prefer the product to be as clear as possible. This is the reason that we use Modified Atmosphere Packing, in order to reduce the rate of oxidation. Yes there is a change between PG and VG. PG has a slightly greater shelf life than VG.


An example: If your own use is 8ml/day of 12mg/ml how much nicotine do you need for 20 years?

12mg * 8ml/day = 96mg/day

365 days in a year

96 * 365 ~= 35,050mg/year

100,000 [1 liter of 100 mg/ml / 35,050 ~= 2.853 years per liter

I rounded down to 2.5 below

20 years / 2.5 = 8 liters or 2 GALLONS

- As long as you do not have allergies to PG/VG rotate the PG/VG in your nicotine base purchases in case you will require 100%PG/VG in a batch of e-liquid in the future. i.e. Order one bottle of nic base 100% PG, and order one bottle of 100% VG. If you need one or the other, it will be on hand.
- VG mixes with PG better if you add the VG into your PG, rather than the other way around.
- Since liquid nic doesn't freeze solid, once removed from the freezer it doesn't need to be thawed. However, since both PG and VG are highly hygroscopic and will pull/absorb moisture from the air, ice cold nic should be allowed to warm to room temperature before opening the bottle. Otherwise condensation would rapidly form and be directly absorbed.

Nude Nicotine Armor v2: If you need to open a bottle to break it down in to smaller bottles: do not open the bottle before it reaches a room temperature (to avoid condensation). Do the transfer, and refreeze what you can.

If you have the money for Argon gas, spray the argon gas in to the bottle and reseal to reduce oxidation. (More information on argon gas below.)

ECF @Rossum "Oxidation will stop when all the oxygen in the bottle is used up. The whole point of putting it in glass is to prevent more oxygen from getting in there after it's sealed up. Kurt has done calculations on how much oxygen is available in a sealed bottle of base, both in the headspace and dissolved in the carriers. The maximum loss of potency due to oxidation in a well-sealed glass bottle is negligible. Moreover, people have pulled nic out of the freezer that's 6 years old and report no change in color, smell, or taste compared to when they put it in there. Properly stored, I don't think there's any reason to believe it won't last indefinitely."
- Safety and safety gear - This should be self explanatory but remember Nicotine solution is toxic in large mg amounts so all safety precautions should be observed. In smaller amounts such as 12mg, 18mg, 24mg it’s not a serious issue just wash it off your skin right away. Larger quantities can be more serious especially if ingested. I recommend viewing the following video and bookmark it for future reference. It explains safety in all aspects of DYI.

This is a must view video on DIY SAFETY.

- 2 GALLON ZIP LOCK BAGS for storage of nic in Freezer. Then write on the outside of the bag or make use of a label maker:


NIC BASE: 100mg/ml
AMOUNT: 500ml / 250ml / 125ml
TYPE: Armor v1/v2, Glass/Plastic bottle

2 GALLON BAGS Ziploc Storage Bags 2 Gallon, 12 Count (Pack Of 3): Health & Personal Care

FREEZER 2 GALLON - PREVENTS FREEZER BURN Ziploc Freezer Bags 2 Gallon 10 Count (Pack Of 3): Health & Personal Care

## (NEXT 90 DAYS: 2+ liters each of PG/VG)

What to buy
- ECF: @Rossum You want palm derived
- LOOK FOR: USP and pharmaceutical grade labels.

Where to buy it
- PG and VG can be purchased from same place you obtain nic or flavorings
- CVS Pharmacy, Nude Nicotine, Wizard Labs, Essential Depot, Bull City Vapor, Bulk Apothecary, NicotineRiver, MyFreedomSmokes. If supplies are in any way cut off, Walmart, Tractor Supply or a Farm and Fleet probably carry USP PG.

- typical reply is to store in a cool dark place
- ECF: @choochoogranny said "putting your vg/pg in the freezer shouldn't be a problem. After all, our nic bases containing Pg/Vg are stored there.......for yrs."
- ECF: @Rossum "I've seen nothing that indicates they [PG/VG] wouldn't stay good indefinitely, especially in a well-sealed glass bottle with minimal head-space."
- ECF @Rossum "I look at it all as cheap insurance. For what I used to spend on cigs every 2 weeks, I've got enough PG and VG to make juice for myself for the next 15 years."
- ECF @bnrkwest "I have some 4 yrs old, seems fine but I think long term in glass would be better. "
- According to Dow Chemical, PG stored under 40C (104F) has a shelf life of two years. It can be theorized that in a freezer, it will last longer, but there's no hard data. However, I've used (and tested) industrial grade PG that showed NO degradation after five years of storage in unopened 55 gallon drums stored in a non-climate controlled warehouse

Is PG/VG Safe?
- ECF: @Two_Bears "PG is used in flavor extracts, animal safe antifreeze, in ice cream, and lots more. VG is used in Wine production, asca sweetener, preservative, hand lotion, soap production, etc."

## (NEXT 90 DAYS: start ordering flavors) ORDER FLAVORS (start making 100% of your juice so that you know what it takes)

Start ordering flavors for recipies that you have found and desire to make. Do not buy flavors without knowing what they are for. They may end up being useless.



Plan is to make key lime pie, make lemonade, as well as "yellow" banana taffy. At times, I may vape both key lime pie and lemonade liquids in my RDA simultaneously.

SAMPLE: Key Lime Pie, ECF: @brian11111

key lime la 9%
graham cracker tfa 4%
marshmallow la 3%
whipped cream tfa 3%
vanilla swirl tfa 3%

Ordered the following from Bull City Vapor
Banana-FA (Size: 10ml)
Graham Cracker Clear-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Key Lime-FW (Size: 10ml)
Key Lime-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Marshmallow-LA (Size: 10ml)
Vanilla Swirl-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Whipped Cream-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Banana-FW (Size: 10ml)
Lemonade-FW (Size: 10ml)
Orange Dream Bar-FW (Size: 10ml)
Lemon-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Ripe Banana-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Sweetener-TFA (Size: 10ml)
Sweet Tangerine-Cap (Size: 13ml Original Bottle)
Raspberry V2-Cap (Size: 13ml Original Bottle)

Stacio - RY4U

FLAVOR: tfa(allegedly the best) -> fa -> cap

- CAP: Capella
- FA: Flavour Art. (FA is usually referring to FlavourArt, which is totally a different company than The Flavor Apprentice(TFA))
- FW: Flavor West
- INW: Inawaera
- LA: LorAnn (Be careful with insoluble flavors. Insoluble flavors are not recommended for beginning DIY)
- TFA: The Flavor Apprentice (also known as The Perfumer's Apprentice or TPA...but you are wise NOT to use TPA. It's perfume!!!)
- TW: Totally Wicked

- ECF: @rosesense "For what it is worth, I have flavorings that are 7 years old and they seem to be fine. Perhaps a bit weaker but still usable."

- ECF: @Rossum "Have you [ever] tried filling the bottle with unflavored and dripping in flavored from the top [of the RDA] when you need/want it?"

- Buy DIY flavors until they are blocked. Note: most people think they may not be blocked, but that the businesses catering to vapers will face stiff headwinds to staying open with the downturn in the vaping market.

- Call around to kitchen/restaurant supply houses to see if they will order it for you. Just don't tell them what it is for.... I'M USING IT FOR COOKING. "Make sure they are water based and NOT oil based. There are two types."

- I've had the same flavor from the same manufacturer taste different from different vendors. As almost everybody rebottles the concentrates, be careful with who you buy it from.

- Never buy big bottles of any flavor until you know that flavor and manufacturer. If something like Green Apple is your favorite flavor, do yourself a favor and sample at least the following 5 flavor makers - TFA, Capella, Flavor West, Flavourart and Inawera. Then, when you find the one that's right for you - buy a big bottle. sells in larg quantities

- You may also find 2 or more flavors that you really like but there's that something still missing....element. I would suggest to try [two or more flavors from different vendors] mixed together. This often lends another depth to the eliquid and may get closer to what you are looking for. It doesn't have to be an even amt for each flavor. Just play with it.

- Hangsen is definitely your best bet if you're in to tobacco flavors

- When blending your own, to avoid disappointment always make note of that manufacturer, not just the flavour. Take copious notes and do not repeat mistakes.

- Some of the inawera flavors can turn your juice to cough syrup at anything over 5%

- Technically no, flavors do not go bad like you think of with food or drinks. Flavors do change over time having an effect on the taste of the flavor. We suggest that flavors be used within 9 months of purchase for best results. As far as storage goes, flavors are best stored in glass rather than plastic (which is why we sell our 10, 30, and 120 mL bottles of flavorings in glass) because flavors can react with the plastic and ruin both the plastic and the flavor. Also, they should be stored in a cool, dark place (not the refrigerator).


(Link to ECF APV Discussions)

- I have 12 box mods right now (2 of which are unregulated). They are all decent mods for the long haul (1 Mech - Scotts Mods Vet, 1 Mech - MVC Raptor, 1 - 75W Sig, 1 - 150W Sig, 2 - Sig 213, 4 - Sig Fuchai 213, 2 - RX200S). Considering 6 more RX200s, and 2 more mech box mods.
- DO NOT buy a mod with an internal battery (non replaceable). Look for mods that use 18650 batteries due to availability.
- DO NOT buy a mechanical mod unless you know what you are doing. Disaster awaits you unless you are prepared to know "Ohms law" and watch over the vaping process incessantly.

Buy vs Have

BOX Mods - Regulated
- 2 - Sigelei 213 (DONE. BOUGHT: 2)
- 4 - Sigelei 213 Fuchai (DONE. BOUGHT: 4)

- 10 - WISMEC RX200s (BOUGHT: 2)

BOX - Mechanical
If the electronics gives out in a regulated mod I can easily convert it to a mosfet mech or a VV Hexohm type of mod. The chips hexohm uses are off the shelf std electronics parts not vaping specific.

- 1 - Scotts Mods (DONE. BOUGHT: 1)
- 1 - MVC Raptor (DONE. BOUGHT : 1)
- 1 - Hex Ohm VV (Digikey sells the exact same DC/DC converter used in the Hexohm mods.) (BOUGHT: 0)
- 2 - BC Boxes (18650 serial/parallel switch box) (BOUGHT: 0)

- IF the 510 does not fit flush, buy "510 Varitube v2" connectors for the RX200s and DNA200s that you plan on working on, AND extra 510 connectors in case any of them breaks, so that you can fix them.

- Provari Provape (If you cannot afford the top of the line mod, look for the blems, they are much cheaper.) (BOUGHT: 0)

ECF @LoriP1702 "SEE 2.5 mini, with extension cap. AND, you can get the extension ring, and run 18650's. ProVari 3 Extension Ring (using the extension cap and the extension ring) or, 18350 in mini mode. I also really like the V2.5, with extension cap, that allows you to run 18650's as well. Both mods can be found in the "specials" section for AWESOME pricing."

- GUS Mod (BOUGHT: 0)
- HCigar Nemisis Clone (BOUGHT: 0)
- Wismec Vicino (Can fire a coil down to 0.15 ohms. Suggested 0.2 ohms. Has board that cuts off when voltage gets too low.)
- Limitless

Long Term Electronics Storage

- ProVape said to store ProVaris for - possibly - decades, using a silica-gel packet in each mod box, and then store the boxes in a cool, dry place.
- Some of us have horridly humid summers. So I'd add that putting each boxed mod in a ZIPLOCK BAG would be cheap extra insurance.


(Link to ECF Rebuildable Atomizer Discussions)

- Had 4 Aspire Atlantis II, and 1 - Aspire Triton before starting to stock up

- 4 - Kayfun V5 RTA $120ea (Buy 8 or more of ea of the following parts: o-rings, extra glass and peek insulators, extra drip tips, extra bases) (BOUGHT: 2)

- 10 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA (BOUGHT: 2 original; 1 clone)
- Buy a Clone (Tobeco: $15 at Vaportek; Unknown clone: $24 at Vapor Geekz), and make sure all parts are similar, then order more
- 20 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA bases (BOUGHT: 4)

- 6 - Velocity V2 RDA ($120 Authentic; Clone $20 at Vapor Geekz; $16 at Vape NW) (BOUGHT: 0)
- Buy 20 extra spare parts for same (bases, peek insulators, o-rings, drip tips)

- 6 - GeekVape Tsunami 24 RDA (Gets hot: Do NOT buy model w glass window, b/c it gets juice all over it and is next to useless. supports squonking w pin) ($40+) ($20 at Vaportek without windows) (BOUGHT: 0)
- Buy 20 extra spare parts for same (bases, peek insulators, o-rings, drip tips)

- 24mm
- nitrogen treated post screws
- 3 drip tips in package
- extras in package
- velocity style posts
- deck has 4 grub screws, 2 posts
- 7mm deep juice well

- 6 - Aspire Atlanis II Pyrex (BOUGHT: 2 )
- 4+ - Aspire Atlanis II atomizer boxes (buy 0.3 ohm, 5 atomizers per box)

- 2 - Mako Shorty RDA (BOUGHT: 1)
- 2 - Mako Shorty RDA delrin drip tips (BOUGHT: 0)
choochoogranny likes this.
You need to be logged in to comment
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice