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  1. About Me

    Atty Test Results
    All testing was performed while actually vaping the
    fully assembled atty, i.e. under real life conditions!
    eJuice and Nic Test Results
    Reviews
    Musings

    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  2. Someone asked me a question in a PM and I decided to post the answer here as others may be interested.

    Many "Multimeters" come with banana jacks that will also accept a "Type K" thermocouple. If you have a thermocouple setting on your multimeter this is a solution you can do at home cheaply. It wont have the triple decimal precision of the instruments I use in my tests, but it will give you a good enough idea of what ballpark you are in.

    Any meter and probe will most likely be accurate within 5 degrees or so, even on a cheap meter. Your biggest margin of error will come from whatever technique you use to position the probe. Positioning is crucial to getting a good measurement.

    Of course it will be up to you to figure out how to get just the tip of the thermocouple under (and touching) a center wrap of your coil and then reassemble it to vape and measure, as every atty is different. Remember, the wraps at the ends of the coil are a significantly lower temp, you want to hit a center wrap. Also, you dont want the thermocouple to "short" (touch) two wraps together, it will change the resistance on your build (possibly even create a hot leg) and give you a worthless measurement.

    Position the probe well and you will have a pretty damn close idea of what temp you are vaping at. Try different spots and methods, then go with the placement that yielded the highest temperature. After all, what you are looking for is the max temp.

    Notice how just the metal tip of the probe is under the wrap, also notice the metal probe tip is not touching two wraps.
    upload_2017-11-5_11-31-58.png

    Some of the newer cartridges (like the baby beast) are almost impossible to measure as they have 2 parallel (dual) coils and they are spaced so closely it is very difficult to just touch just one of the coil wraps. If you touch two wires you short the two coils together with the metal on the probe and throw off the whole measurement, and most likely create a hot leg. If you see ridiculously high temps on a saturated wick, look for a short caused by the probe.
    upload_2017-11-5_12-22-37.png


    Examples of meters that can be used for this, just make sure it has a Temperature or "Type K" Thermocouple (sometimes it just says temp) setting. If you own a multimeter, chances are 50/50 your meter already supports Type K thermocouples.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    If you dont have a multimeter, you can get one for only $20:
    https://www.amazon.com/Extech-MN35-Digital-Mini-MultiMeter/dp/B0012VWR20/ref=sr_1_13?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1509820270&sr=1-13&keywords=multimeters+with+type+k+thermocouple

    upload_2017-11-5_11-40-38.png



    This is the adapter you want to adapt the meter banana jacks to "Type K Mini thermocouples", the black jack (minus) goes in the COM jack on the meter., and in this case the red (plus) jack would go on the TEMP side, however this can differ from meter to meter so read your meter manual if in doubt.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    It comes with a probe, but the black adapter also adapts your banana plugs on the meter to ANY "mini" (aka Subminiature) thermocouple connector.
    [​IMG]


    A thermocouple wire comes with the adapter but it might be too thick and I dont know what temp the insulation can handle. If desired, you can order smaller ones from the "Omega" links below. Consider getting the kind with the mini connectors already on them, or else you also need to buy the mini connectors and assemble them yourself.

    Make sure you get the "Type K" thermocouples, and the finer the gauge the faster the response time.

    I recommend selecting the Kapton or PFA insulation as the glass braid insulation starts coming unraveled as soon as the juice hits it. The Kapton or PFA have a 500°F limit, if you go much above that you will fry the probe. The glass braid has a much higher 900°F limit but I never found it to be practical (even though I really wanted to and tried hard) because the braid comes unraveled as soon as it gets wet. The glass braid is a "one shot" deal, you get one shot and then the probe is shot.

    Links with "mini" connectors already attached (easier):
    Thermocouples | Insulated Thermocouples with Connectors | Types J, K, T and E
    You want the ones with a part # starting with "5S" as that is the mini connector. The "5L" is a larger connector and wont fit.

    upload_2017-11-5_12-4-13.png


    Link without connectors (cheaper but you have to buy the connectors and assemble yourself):
    Glass braided & PFA Insulated Thermocouples
    [​IMG]


    You will need these Type K "mini" connectors if you buy the wires without connectors:
    https://www.amazon.com/Thermocouple-Adapter-Yellow-Temperature-Sensors/dp/B016RXW14G/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1509818047&sr=8-5&keywords=thermocouple+adapter

    [​IMG]
    awsum140 likes this.
  3. First read this article from vaping360.com, which is a very good article to read ENTIRELY!

    The TC Mods I use are calibrated, and validated, with NIST traceable instruments to be +/- 10 degrees, but just because mine are accurate doesnt mean they all are.

    There are a lot factors that must come together to have an accurate TC reading on a mod. A mere couple hundredths of an ohm can make a big difference with some of the wire being used.

    • The manufacturer of the board
      • Top tier, I have long had confidence in the Evolv DNA line (made in the USA), but there are other good boards like Yihi, FSK, Dicodes, etc
      • 2nd tier boards generally wont be as accurate, and wont have as many options to tweak. Generally, if the Mod is $50 or less it is probably a 2nd tier board inside.
      • Even 2nd tier boards can often be improved by running the Arctic Fox software and Firmware, which adds functionality very similar to Evolv's Escribe software.
    • How well the mod was constructed, specifically with respect to the solder joints to the 510 connector, and the solder joints to "ground".
      • A cold or poor solder joint can increase resistance which will throw your measured temp off.
    • Is it a quality 510 connector, many spring loaded connectors dont have enough tension.
      • The amount of force between the 510 center pin and the atty center is important. If there is not a a tight contact then it could introduce resistance which would throw you measured temp off. This is most commonly an issue on economy mods.
      • The Cisco 510 V2 or the Evolv 510 are good examples of a high quality 510.
    • Was the mod calibrated to account for internal resistance.
      • Better boards will allow you to plug in an "offset" resistance to compensate for the accumulated resistance of the the 510 and internal solder joints.
      • upload_2017-10-26_11-23-2.png
    • The quality of the atty, specifically its internal resistance and stability under heat flux.
      • Some attys are just not good for TC use. Certain attys, particularly if they have lots of parts in the center conductor path, will add, or even worse - change, resistance as the atty heats up. You want an atty that maintains very stable resistance.
    • The accuracy of the TCR or TFR curve being used with respect to the wire.
      • The vast majority of TC mods (FSK being the exception) rely on "knowing" what resistance to expect at a certain temperature. This is usually provided by the manufacturer of the wire.
      • This relationship is expressed as either TCR or a TFR.
      • A TCR (Temperature Coefficient of Resistance) which is a single number that the TC Mod will use in its algorithms to calculate the temperature.
      • A TFR (Temperature Factors of Resistance) which is a series of numbers representing a curve of numbers that the TC Mod will use in its algorithms to calculate the temperature. IMHO the TFR is the more accurate of the two methods since the relationship is usually not linear. upload_2017-10-26_13-35-8.png
      • If you are building your own coils, or just trying to find the TCR/TFR for a certain metal, Steam Engine is a great place to go. It has all the canned calculators you are likely to ever need.
    • The quality and consistency of the wire.
      • Different manufacturers of wire are more consistent than others. If the gauge (diameter) of wire changes at all throughout the spool it could cause hot/cold spots, if the alloy changes throughout the spool it will change resistance on you vs what the TCR is expecting.
      • I like Temco wire but there are many others available. Avoid unknown brands, or brands that dont state the specific alloy of the metal.
    • The technique of the user in assembling all of the above.
      • Good tight connects, no shorts anywhere, no corrosion or dirt on any of the connections, etc are important in making sure the resistance of the mod is accurate.
      • "E-juice does not conduct electricity very well, but like everything else, it does conduct a little. Burnt juice leads to carbon buildup on the coil, and carbon conducts electricity fairly well." Therefor burnt coils can throw off you measured temp easily. Keep your coils clean.
    • The bottom line is that ANYTHING that might increase the resistance in your mod/atty/coil will cause your temperature reading to be inaccurate.

    Some tips for TC newbies.
    • Start with SS316 or SS430 wire. Both of these can be used in either TC mode or wattage as you learn the ropes.
    • Most TC mods will allow you to set a maximum wattage, set this wattage to be about 25% higher than the wattage you usually vape at. This is only necessary in the beginning as you learn TC. Once you have learned it, and are comfortable with your Mod being accurate, then you can just max out your wattage, as the TC (technically temperature "limiting") will automatically limit the wattage to keep you from going over-temp.
    • If you find that you normally vape at 420f but all of a sudden have to crank up the temp to get a satisfying vape, check for crud on your coil.
    • If you find that you normally vape at 420f but all of a sudden have to lower the temp to to keep from getting a burnt tasting vape, check for hot legs on your coil.
    • Dont take a "hot" atty off of another mod and then put it on a TC mod, the results will not be good. A TC mod measures (what it assumes is) the "cold resistance" the first time you attach it to use as a baseline. If you attach a HOT atty your baseline will be off and your temperature readings will not be accurate.


    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  4. What got all of this started was a thread I started here on ECF (after being goaded by a certain Admin paybacks are hell). I had discovered some new research by Wang and Guiss suggesting that carcinogens (like formaldehyde) start getting produced at high temperatures, temperatures that were within the normal range of vaping, ie before encountering a dry hit. So I posted the research.

    I fully expected numbers from a real modern day atty would be lower than Wang's, as 100% of the juice in Wangs study was exposed to the specified temperature. Whereas in a real atty a significant portion of the juice does not contact the coil, but vaporizes at a lower temp directly off the wick. My gut told me the thermal degradation phenomena is genuine, but I had no clue what magnitude we would see in a real atty.

    I got flamed to hell and back for posting that thread. A lot half baked malarkey, with little to no base in fact, got thrown at me in opposition. Also, since thermal degradation is triggered by temp, many of the VW mod users had legitimate concerns about what temps they might be vaping at. So I started doing professional temperature testing on real attys and posting the results in my blog. That led to "why not test for formaldehyde too". One of the members shared a video showing a relatively inexpensive formaldehyde meter and suggested we get one. Several of the members then generously contributed towards buying one of these meters.

    What resulted is the first publicly posted (to my knowledge) results of thermal degradation formaldehyde testing on a real atty, and under real vaping conditions. I.e. how much formaldehyde is generated at what temperature.

    Test Gear Utilized:
    • DNA 200, calibrated, and validated, to be +/- 10 degrees in accuracy
    • Merlin RTA with a 0.51ohm, 5/6 wrap, 28g TI coil, and a rayon wick.
    • Mettler Toledo PB303, freshly calibrated.
    • Extech FM200 Formaldehyde Meter with a fresh factory calibration
    • The testing was performed under actual vaping conditions.
    • Juices were 36mg (its what I vape) and were unflavored as I didnt want flavorings to skew the results. Flavorings are a whole different can of worms and really need to be tested in and of themselves.
    • VG and PG were from Essential Depot, nic was from E-Liq.com

    My Testing Setup:
    [​IMG]
    • I am using a 500ml chamber to store the probe and inject the sample into. Also know as "tidal volume". The probe is temp and humidity compensated, so it needed to be in the same conditions as the aerosol being measured.
    • I weigh the mod, and tare (zero) the scale.
    • I then us a 60ml syringe to draw a 55ml sample (an industry standard puff) directly off the mod while firing. The drip tip was drilled out to snugly fit the syringe tip. The samples were drawn at 3-4 second rate, at a velocity and vacuum equal to a MTL hit.
    • I inject the 55ml into the 500ml chamber and allow the reading on the HCH0 meter to stabilize, this can take 10-20 minutes. I then record that PPB reading.
    • In the meantime I weigh the mod again and record the mg of juice consumed, which shows as a negative number.
    • I did 5 samples of each juice, at each temp, to enhance statistical accuracy.
    • The math in my SS then calculates mg/m^3 (converts PPB to mass by volume), µg\Puff, mg/g of formaldehyde per gram of ejuice consumed . My math was validated by a respected PHD.
    I dont have a University budget to work with, so the precision isnt going to equal a High Performance Liquid Chromatography (starts at $35k - used). However, I got very repeatable results, which tells me I did as well as my equipment will allow.


    So, here are my bottom line results, they were not nearly as severe as some of the unrealistic studies floating around.
    • Below 440f vaping is relatively formaldehyde free (flavorings not included)
    • Above 480f is appears that the 90\10 VG\DW was the safest, which makes perfect sense if you look at the boiling point which is 281f. Even 5% DW would lower the boiling point to 332f and be way below the danger zone.

    Test Considerations:
    • Tests were performed on accurate TC gear, these results wont directly apply to VV or VW gear because these tests were all "temperature based". It all still comes down to temperature. The amount of formaldehyde generated is a direct result of thermal degradation, the hotter you cook your juice the more formaldehyde you will get. However, the hottest of these tests were done at 500f, if you get much hotter than that you will start to taste "burnt" even if not yet in a dry hit situation. IMHO, if you arent tasting "burnt" (unless strong flavorings cover it up) then you are likely not exceeding the level of a cigarette.
    • These test were done on modern gear. Older VV/VW gear might have more severe results due to juice flow inadequacies, and other unfavorable variables etc. Still, IMHO, if you arent tasting "burnt" then you are likely not exceeding the level of a cigarette.
    • Formaldehyde was the only nasty tested here. Ecigs can have a few different nasties, but not nearly as many as the hundreds of nasties found in burnt tobacco that arent in vape.
    • These tests were done using MTL conditions. I have no clue how they would correlate to DL hits. My gut tells me DL would be higher levels, especially if cloud chasing, simply because you are inhaling higher volumes (more mg) of juice per hit, so if nasties are present at a given temp you will get more of them.
    I think that the Wang study was onto something. They documented the thermal degradation phenomena, and the temps that it occurs at. However their quantities were skewed vs vaping by not using real vape gear in real conditions. There are physics going on inside an atty that can only be reproduced in an actual atty.


    Test Data:
    [​IMG]

    The above results are inline with Dr Kurts study, however it is difficult to know what temperature he was running at various wattage settings. I would propose that his higher mg\g values were also higher temperatures.
    upload_2017-10-21_14-4-13.png



    My Testing:
    [​IMG]
    Now multiply these values by how many puffs you take a day.

    Again, the above results are inline with Dr Kurts study, however it is difficult to know what temperature he was running at various wattage settings. I would propose that his higher ug\puff values were also higher temperatures.

    upload_2017-10-21_14-4-58.png

    Lets keep the "per puff" in perspective, here is "per puff" for tobacco:

    [​IMG]



    From our own Dr Kurt:

    upload_2017-10-21_15-21-22.png


    Thermal Degradation is real folks.
    • Dr Kurt, Wang, and Guiss have all identified it in one way or another. Many were discredited within our community because they didnt use actual vape gear or conditions.
    • I have used actual vape gear and conditions, and I also saw and measured the thermal degradation in our own gear, and at temperatures that many do vape at.
    • Volts and Watts equate to a gas pedal, but it is the SPEED (Temperature) that will get you a ticket.
    • How FAST you go is determined by the gas pedal, but how hard you have to press the pedal differs from vehicle to vehicle.
    • So it is with VV\VW mods, the amount of watts to get over 440f will differ from mod to mod based on those 18 variables.
    • If formaldehyde levels concern you, TC mods are a much more accurate way to know how hot you are running. Regardless, vaping is still safer than combustible tobacco!
    • And contrary to what many say, "I" couldnt taste anything bad until I hit about 505f! Our taste-buds are not as good of an indicator as some may think.


    Temperature Matters.....................
    • I am not saying that vaping is unsafe, I am saying that vaping too hot is not as safe as it could be, and that is easily fixable.
    • Even at high temperatures, I didnt measure anything that exceeded a cigarette. However I was using a moderate build. Extreme builds, contact coils, multiple coils, Clapton\twisted\braided coils, etc, will have higher levels (at a given temp) than I measured.
    • An extreme enough build, at high temp, could indeed exceed formaldehyde levels found in combustible tobacco!

    The ACTUAL statement made by the Royal College of Physicians, 11 St Andrews Place, Regent's Park, London NW1 4LE

    "E-cigarettes and long-term harm - the possibility of some harm from long-term e-cigarette use cannot be dismissed due to inhalation of the ingredients other than nicotine, but is likely to be very small, and substantially smaller than that arising from tobacco smoking. With appropriate product standards to minimise exposure to the other ingredients, it should be possible to reduce risks of physical health still further. Although it is not possible to estimate the long-term health risks associated with e-cigarettes precisely, the available data suggest that they are unlikely to exceed 5% of those associated with smoked tobacco products, and may well be substantially lower than this figure."

    Please note the part highlighted in green. What they are saying is that there is "probably" more we can do to make vaping even safer!

    Also note this statement from the University of Cambridge Cancer Institute:

    "We also know that different users use different devices and liquids. So it could be that some are safer or more harmful than others. And people also use the devices in different ways. So further work needs to be done to understand these differences, so that each vaper is using their device as safely as possible."


    Related Blogs of interest:




    [​IMG]



    Supporting data for those who wish to analyze it:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  5. I have discovered I am a wimp! I thought I was hardcore running 36mg on dual coils and clapton coils etc, MTL. But I have to admit, 2mg DTL on this high wattage beast just kicks my butt. I wont be testing any more of these, DTL is not my thing.

    My first attempt at testing this I just did MtL. It was pointed out that DTL is the typical usage so I redid the tests. DTL did lower the temps considerably vs MtL.

    I installed the probe along side one of the coils and put it all together and vaped it.

    upload_2017-8-12_16-13-10.jpeg



    upload_2017-8-12_16-10-46.png

    Subjectively it tasted hotter than the test results reflect, not a lot of cooling of the vape before it exits the atty. And next time I test something like this I about going to cut my nic by 75%.



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    cigatron likes this.
  6. Penguin SE
    upload_2017-8-12_15-44-30.png

    • This is a refillable "Pod Mod". Comes with 2 different "Atopack" coils,, a 0.25 ohm for DTL and 0.6 ohm for MtL.
    • It is a direct output mod, ie it is like a mech, no regulation.
    • There is no airflow adjustment and MtL is a little too airy, but it is easily modded to restrict airflow to 50%.
    • Common complaint on these atopack coils is dry hits. Avoiding high VG and/or doing the 50% airflow mod reduces this to near zero.
    • Based on testing I would say it is plenty safe at .6ohms, while the 0.25 ohm is marginally hot.

    Threaded probe through pod cartridge and inserted next to coil.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are the test results.
    [​IMG]

    Sample test graph: .025 ohm coil with 100% airflow

    [​IMG]

    To make the 50% airflow reduction mod, you can just put a piece of tape over part of the airholes.
    upload_2017-8-12_15-45-22.png

    Or if you want something more elegant, plug the air channel from the bottom.

    Remove the silicone plug, being careful not to lose ( and subsequently replace) the little metal plate.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Place a piece of cotton in half the air channel, it has a nice divider down the middle so 50% restriction is easy.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Some other thoughts.
    • I vape unflavored, so you may have different results with flavored juices. But with unflavored I will sometimes get that "ever so slightly" scorched tasting hit. Not a full on Devils Butt burnt hit, just slightly scorched. When I get those I "STOP", if I hit it again I know I will get Devils Butt next time. I will cover the air channel with my thumb and do a couple of dry puffs without firing, and without airflow. That creates enough vacuum to pull some juice into the coil. I am usually good to go after that.
    • The other thing is the juice level window in the Penguin SE can be hard to see. If you ever let you tank run dry and get a single Devil Butt hit, that coil is shot, there is no salvaging it. I make it a habit to fill my tanks when I see only about 25% in the window.
    • When refilling the the tank, I know you can push it and put 9ml in the tank. That actually works against you as it creates more vapor-lock inside the tank. I have found much better results by filling the tank only about 90% and leaving a nice little air bubble in it.

    One trick I have been doing is soaking my spare cartridges in unflavored juice in a pill bottle for a week or more, actually I just keep a bunch there until I need them. Havent had a priming issue since doing this, reduces the infant mortality rate.

    [​IMG]


    Follow up dissection:
    It is standard lipo pack technology, except that it is oval shaped instead of the usual flat packs we see.

    At full charge I measure 4.18v which is what I expected. There are no regulation electronics at all except for the battery management. So it is indeed akin to an electronic mech.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    northhar, dwcraig1 and cigatron like this.
  7. Test results:

    One thing I failed to record was that the stock coils were on the newer "vertical" style coil, not the original horizontal coils.

    upload_2017-8-26_9-5-2.png

    Looks like above 3.9v on VV, or 7.5W on VW, started getting a little warm with respect to the claims made in the Wang Study. Using the largest airflow setting did reduce temps a bit more.

    If you are just joining the party, please view this blog entry for details on how I am performing my testing.



    Example of graph:
    [​IMG]



    Test Porn:
    The way I rigged this particular atty was I gently stuck a sewing needle down the outside of the coil and made a tiny hole to slip the probe through. Then I inserted the probe inside the hole. Once it got wet the fill swelled around it.

    [​IMG]

    A closer view.
    upload_2017-8-2_8-28-3.png

    Full Rig.
    [​IMG]



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  8. Ok, so Photosucket screwed us.
    Here is one way you can fix your Blogs, and any other posts that you can still edit.

    You can easily run your own private image hosting app that is even more powerful than Photobucket, and a heck of a lot faster, with no Ads. You can even set it up for a group of users, each with their own logon. If you have a small group, it would only be $1 or less a month to maintain this.

    The beauty of this is you are controlling your own images, and links, nobody can ever cut you off and hold you for ransom.

    upload_2017-7-14_14-56-23.png

    This assumes that you have a website being hosted by some "Web Hosting" service, I use "Lunarpages", a lot of other folks like "GoDaddy", there are hundreds out there.
    • If you dont have one, you can get one for less than $6-$10 a month quite easily. Look for a service that uses "cpanel" (important) for managing your web account, they are quite common. Shop around, there are hundreds of web hosting services out there, and they are quite inexpensive now.

    Install Chevereto:
    • Download and install "Chevereto-Free". If your web host "cpanel" has a "Softaculous Apps Installer" (many do) there is a good chance this app is already in there.
    • upload_2017-7-14_14-58-6.png
    • upload_2017-7-14_14-58-16.png
    • Once installed there are two very important settings you want to make. This is what will make fixing your old post easier. These settings are found under Dashboard/Settings/Image Upload
    • upload_2017-7-14_15-5-36.png
    • There are tons of other settings, just make sure you get the 2 above right. This would be a good time to upload a few images, and play with all of the other settings and make sure you get it behaving the way you want to. Takes a few minutes, but its worth it.


    Now, download all of your Photobucket Albums:
    • Log into photobucket and click the "Library" link
    • Click on a "Bucket" or an "Album".
    • upload_2017-7-14_15-45-26.png
    • Look on the right-hand side for ACTIONS
    • Click on the DOWNLOAD ALBUM link
    • upload_2017-7-14_15-17-27.png
    • This will allow you to download the whole album in one zip file which you then save somewhere on your computer.
    • Do this for each ALBUM in Photobucket. Note, if you have sub-folders in an album, you have to do each one individually.

    Now, upload your photos into Chevereto:
    • Upload each of your albums into CHEVERETO
    • I recommend sorting them into albums as you upload them, you will see the link to do so after the upload is complete.
    • Dont worry though, you can move them from one album to another later if you like, it wont break the links.
    • Do this for each the zip files you downloaded from Photobucket.
    • A key concept here was keeping the exact same filenames that you had in Photosucket, this makes fixing your posts MUCH easier.
      • Dont realy on your original files (that maybe you still have in your camera or whatever) as Photosucket changed the filenames when you uploaded them there. We now want to keep and recycle those changed filenames.


    Now, to fix you old Posts and Blog entries:

    Edit the old post and do this:

    While in EDIT Mode, click on the ransom thumbnail:
    upload_2017-7-14_14-32-18.png


    Highlight the portion of the link all the way up to the last backslash just prior to the filename, and delete it.

    upload_2017-7-14_14-33-54.png
    after deletion, just the /filename left.
    upload_2017-7-14_14-34-53.png



    Now paste in the prefix for your new CHEVERETO file path:

    upload_2017-7-14_14-37-7.png



    And click INSERT:
    Your image will now appear.
    [​IMG]





    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    Katdarling, cigatron, Adan and 2 others like this.
  9. @homeuser6 sent me an RSST genny with a 2.08ohm kanthal coil, wrapped around 3mm Ekowool. He vapes on a mech so he asked me to measure that set of parameters. juice was about 85/15 VG/DW.

    Note that this was a "modded" top cap and had four 1mm airholes. This made a huge difference as when I taped off 3 of the airholes the temperatures at every setting rose 50-100 degrees.

    Even on a fresh battery (4.2v) this build looked good.
    This is 3 5-sec puffs with a break in between followed by a couple of chain vapes

    [​IMG]

    Probe inserted easily on this build:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And for the full stats (he said he never lets his bat drop below 3.6v):

    [​IMG]


    ETA: DL hits were about 25% lower in temp, and quite tasty, I would rather enjoy that setup with a little higher nic.



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    Katya, homeuser6 and cigatron like this.
  10. iClear 16

    Thanks to @Mazinny I had a bunch of iClear16s to test.

    • Stock dual coil 2.1 ohm
    • VV tested on a Provari
    • VW tested ona Vamo
    • 40/40/10 PG/VG/Flavoring used, 36mgml
    • Standard NIST traceable Thermocouple test bench
    Was tricky to insert probe, inserted probe on top of bottom coil:

    [​IMG]
    Used a red hot sewing needle to make small hole in tank to thread probe. Made small knot as a "strain relief" to keep probe from getting pulled out.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    This is at 3.9v, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:

    [​IMG]

    This was at 6w, a couple of spaced hits, then a couple chain hits:

    [​IMG]

    And finally, the full data:

    [​IMG]




    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    cigatron likes this.
  11. OK, so the Protank 2 coils were a real PITA to test.

    The 40gauge thermocouples are tiny, delicate, and they fell out easily and frequently. So I got a chance to see and feel the wicks a lot while re-threading the probe. There is no doubt, the rebuilt coils with cotton held magnitudes more juice than the stock coils with silica wicks.

    This may shock some tootle folks, but data is data, and this is what I measured.
    Stock 2.2 ohm coil on a Protank2. Red was 5.5w, yellow was 5.0w, and blue was 6.0w
    [​IMG]
    ************************************
    YES: On a Protank 2 with a stock 2.2ohm coil
    you are hitting over 500F at 6 watts!
    ************************************


    The rebuilt coil made with 30g kanthal and cotton wicks fared much better.

    [​IMG]


    And finally, the full data:

    [​IMG]

    Just for the record, NONE of these hits tasted burnt!

    Properly rebuilt coils are pretty safe temp wise, stock silica coils are NOT, at least according to Wang and Geiss.



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    David Wolf likes this.
  12. Please read through this blog, then you decide if you should trust my credibility or not. I have nothing to gain or loose either way.....

    • My name is Mike Petro, I am 59 years young. I smoked for 40years+, the last 10 years I smoked 5-7 large 50 ring gauge cigars a day, and inhaled every last puff. This was my preferred stogie.
    [​IMG]
    • I am a bit of a geek, when I choose a topic/lover/subject/hobby etc I tend to approach it with great passion. "Do it right, or dont do it at all"
    Educational Background:
    • 1978-1984 - US Navy - Aviation Electronics Technician stationed aboard the USS John F Kennedy - VAW-126. They took the black boxes (radios, radars, etc) out of the "E2C Hawkeye" aircraft and sent them to me for repair. Generally considered to be the equivalent of an Associates Degree.
    • 1984-1986 - Continued my electronics education through Devry
    • 2000 - Was certified as a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer. (The highest certification available at the time)

    Experience:
    • 40+ years of electronics repair.
    • 30+ were specialized in the field of Instrumentation & Control.
    • My specialty being the measurement and control of various process variables such as Level, Flow, Temperature, Pressure, Force, Tensions, Weight, pH, Various Gas Concentrations, Various Chemical Concentrations, etc etc
    • Along the way I had to learn a good bit about mechanics, physics, & chemistry, because it is hard to measure and control something you dont understand.
    • In the mid 80s I took up computers (the original PC XT) as a hobby. Process control and Instrumentation gradually started becoming computerized. This became a niche career for me as I knew both worlds, which at the time was quite rare.
    • Today I am the Department Manager of the IT, HVAC, Electrical, and Instrumentation Departments of a multi billion $ Industrial facility.

    Vape Biography:
    • This was the first one I tried, back around 2009/2010, never did get it to work for more than avoiding tobacco for a few hours. Gave up on it after a week or two. Didnt even know ECF existed, my only information came from magazine ads.
    [​IMG]
    • Then I found this around New Years 2013, havent smoked tobacco since the first time I puffed it. I took one puff and realized that "this" could actually work!
    [​IMG]
    • After that has been a long succession of trying most anything that was getting good reviews. I learned how to make my own juice, I learned how to make my own mods, and really I am satisfied with the mid 2016 tech and havent been searching anymore since. I can build that tech to be stronger than I think i would ever desire, but I can also tone it down to that "just right" for me place.
    • Bright and shiny is cool and all, but if I never advanced past where I am at now, I would be perfectly happy.
    ECF Biography:
    • I joined ECF shortly after discovering the Ego could actually work. I looked around and ECF seemed to have the most information at the time.
    • I quickly got involved in Hosting ECF Co-ops. I had a lot of co-op experience from other hobbies, so I just sort of fell right in here, it came naturally. I filled over 700 orders to ECFers, at cost, helping them get quality gear at truly wholesale prices. Everything from Ekowool, to Vamos, to DNA boards, to full DIY Mod Kits.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    • I am #5 on the list of highest # of "Trades" on all of ECF. Not a single issue the whole time. Alas, between the FDA, and tax complications, my days of hosting co-ops here are done. It was a good run while it lasted, a lot of people got some really good gear real cheap.
    • I built my first mod here in Nov 2013. "The Weekender". DNA20 Mod
    [​IMG]
    • It was the first of about 150 mods I have built since then.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    • All along I have engaged in various "focus groups" exploring new ways to vape, new materials to use, and testing things the best I knew how.
    Why am I investing the time and money to grow these entries?
    • First and foremost, I have an innovative spirit. I am a "hacker" in the true sense of the term (which used to be a good thing). I have hacked everything from coffee machines to fish tanks, to cars, to home automation, so hacking mods just comes naturally.
    • Vaping saved my life, I want to share that with as many as I can.
    • I also see a lot of half baked malarkey being thrown around on the forums. People say things with little to no base of fact behind them. Since I have the skillset to do "sound" testing, I like to prove/disprove things where I can. The more FACTS that I know about vaping, the more I can credibly share.

    Testing Methods:
    • Through my profession I have learned sound & professional methods to test many processes and variables. I apply that knowledge to vaping where I can.
    • I own a lot of quality test equipment of my own, and I also have access to an abundance of high quality Industrial test Equipment.
    • Any serious test is done utilizing equipment that has been calibrated as being traceable back to the NIST.
    • I built this temperature controller. I use it for many things from roasting coffee, to Sous-vide cooking, to measuring precise temps. It consists of a Solo Temperature controller, and in most cases I use a Type K thermocouple for the input. [​IMG]
    • Fluke 725 Process Calibrator used to calibrate/certify the AutomationDiirect Solo Temperature Controller
    • upload_2017-6-9_11-25-46.png
    • upload_2017-6-9_11-12-31.png
    • upload_2017-7-14_22-47-8.png
    • [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]
    • upload_2017-6-9_11-14-1.jpeg
    • upload_2017-6-9_11-14-15.jpeg
    • [​IMG]
    • [​IMG]

    Full Disclosure:
    • I am not affiliated with any company related to vaping whatsoever. Some may call me an Evolv Fanboy because I like (and believe in) Evolv products, but I am not affiliated with them or anybody else beyond being a customer.
    • I have NEVER profited off of any sale on ECF, or any other vaping venue. Quite simply, I am not in this for the money. Money can destroy a good passion and I made the conscious decision not to let that happen with vaping.
    • In fact, I rarely even ask for donations to cover testing supplies. I have been investing hundreds if not thousands of my own money to perform the various testing I do. The only thing I generally will ask for is hardware pieces that people want tested. I dont mind doing the testing, but I am not going to buy YOUR specific atty just so I can test it for YOU. Now, send me one to test, and all is good.
    • I do test Beta Mods for Evolv from time to time to help them find bugs. This is not a paid gig, I do get a mod out of it, but trust me, I pay for that mod with many hours of testing. Beyond this, I do not test for vendors or manufacturers. You will never see me "shilling" for ANYBODY.

    [​IMG]




    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  13. Context:

    The RCP announcement got widely publicized as meaning that vaping was 95% safer than smoking, however the detail and context of the entire report has not been talked about nearly as much.

    From the Royal College of Physicians, 11 St Andrews Place, Regent's Park, London NW1 4LE

    "E-cigarettes and long-term harm - the possibility of some harm from long-term e-cigarette use cannot be dismissed due to inhalation of the ingredients other than nicotine, but is likely to be very small, and substantially smaller than that arising from tobacco smoking. With appropriate product standards to minimise exposure to the other ingredients, it should be possible to reduce risks of physical health still further. Although it is not possible to estimate the long-term health risks associated with e-cigarettes precisely, the available data suggest that they are unlikely to exceed 5% of those associated with smoked tobacco products, and may well be substantially lower than this figure."

    Please note the part highlighted in green. What they are saying is that there is "probably" more we can do to make vaping even safer!

    Also note this statement from the University of Cambridge Cancer Institute:

    "We also know that different users use different devices and liquids. So it could be that some are safer or more harmful than others. And people also use the devices in different ways. So further work needs to be done to understand these differences, so that each vaper is using their device as safely as possible."

    Now, two new studies have come out by Wang and Guiss that suggest that carcinogens (like formaldehyde) start getting produced at high temperatures. I have proven, in some of my other blog posts, that our coils can indeed reach these temperatures quite easily (without being Dry Hits).

    IMHO, the best way to avoid high temperatures is to use a TC mod and set the temp below 450f (ish). However, if you dont choose this option for whatever reason, I have attempted to compile a set of "Best Practices" that a VV/VW mod user can employ to help keep their temperatures at lower levels.

    "Best Practices"
    • Avoid "Stock Silica Coils".
      • Silca has been proven in test after test to be sub standard in transporting juice. If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod. "Stock" silica wicks have proven to be horrible performers and will almost always result in potentially dangerous high temps.
    • Avoid Chain Hitting
      • Chain hitting a non TC mod will definitely, and sometimes very significantly increase the coil temperature, regardless of voltage or wattage settings. I have proven this with direct thermocouple measurements. What happens is the coil doesnt get a chance to cool between chain hits, so subsequent hits are already starting with a preheated coil. The more chain hits in a row, the hotter the coil will get each time.
    • Diligently replace/clean your coil when they get gunked.
      • Gunked coils inhibit heat transfer, and the most common reaction is for a user to increase their power to compensate for the weaker hit, resulting in higher coil temps.
      • There is also data that suggests that burning the carbonized junk on a coil gives off its own set of extra nasties.
      • Juices with high percentages of flavoring, certain specific flavors (often darker ones), and high levels of sweeteners, are known for gunking coils faster.
      • If your hit seems to be getting weaker, check your coil for gunk.
    • Ensure good coil saturation via good wicking
      • If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod. The more power hungry your coil, the better your wicking needs to be. Silica is a bad choice for wicking, if you have the option, do select something else.
    • Select a lower boiling point juice if you have a "variable" (VV or VW) mod.
      • What a lower boiling point juice allows you to do is "lower your settings" to achieve a similarly satisfying hit, which will result in lower temperatures. Lower point liquids include those with lower VG content, or if high VG then diluted with 5-10% of distilled water.
    • If using a top coil tank, take a few extra precautions
      • Refill when tank is no more than half empty.
      • ALWAYS do a swirl to ensure that the exposed wick is fully saturated before every hit.
    • Take shorter, even if more frequent, hits.
      • The longer the hit the higher the temperature gets, this has been proven via accurate instrumentation.
    • As Dr. Farsalinos suggests.
      • It’s better to vape less with higher nicotine than to decrease your nicotine and vape more often to feel satisfied.
      • It’s probably best to choose a more capable atty but not reduce your nicotine to compensate; reduce your number of puffs instead.
      • Less puffs equals less PG and/or VG by-products.

    Using these "Best Practices" will greatly reduce the probability of venturing into the questionable higher temperature ranges.


    There are actually about 18 variables that affect coil temperatures in a VV/VW mod. A major one is air flow across the coil. Please see this blog for more info if you are interested.



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
    Richard-D, Letitia, Wayneo and 9 others like this.
  14. Note: the context of this entry is trying to increase the understanding of VV and VW coil temperatures. Studies by Wang and Guiss suggest that carcinogens (like formaldehyde) start getting produced at high temperatures. I have proven, in some of my other blog posts, that our coils can indeed reach these temperatures quite easily. If you run a TC mod then you know what temp you running, but if you dont then the questions come up of "what temp is my Mod running".

    I am a firm believer in TC Mods, but for those who dont have them I have tried to identify all of the variables that affect the coil temperature in a VV/VW mod.
    *************************************************************

    My objective is to show clearly, all of the variables that affect the temperature in a VV or VW Mod. I excluded TC mods because, well, you already know the temp on those. Based on what I have put together so far, I count 18 distinct variables, any one of which could result in a coil temperature change.

    A key concept, is that if you change ANY single variable, you could change the resulting temperature. This is what makes it so hard to accurately answer "how hot is my XYZ Mod getting".

    I have explained the variables in a little more detail below the graphic.
    upload_2017-6-3_23-26-49.png


    Atty Variables:
    Resistance
    • With all else being equal, changing the resistance of your coil (using a different cartridge for example) will definitely change the resulting temperature.
    Material
    • Different wires have different "heat fluxes". In other words, you can run two different wires at the exact sames 4.1volts, and one type of wire might burn hotter than the other. Steam-Engine is a great place to research the various properties of different kinds of wire.
    Design
    • How wide are the coils spaced, is it a contact coil, is it a clapton coil? These are all examples of different coil designs. Different designs will change the temperature with all else being equal.
    Cleanliness
    • Is it a new coil, or an old gunked up coil. When your coil gets gunked, clean or replace promptly. Gunked coils inhibit heat transfer, and the most common reaction is for a user to increase their power, resulting in a higher coil temp. There is also data that suggests that burning the carbonized junk on a coil also gives off nasties.
    Atty Design
    • A CE4 is different than Protank, which is different than a Kayfun, which is different than an Aromamizer. There are hundreds of different designs on the market. With all else being equal, these drastically different designs will affect the resulting temperature at the coil.
    Airflow Design
    • Some attys have small airholes, some have large slots, some have bottom airflow, side airflow, or top airflow. The bottom line is that, with all else being equal, if you change the velocity, volume, or pattern of air blowing over the coil it will likely affect the temperature on a non TC Mod.
    Juice Channel
    • Different attys have different types of juice supply channels. Some are quite large, others quite small. Some atty designs will also create a vacuum in the coil chamber that effectively helps pull juice into the chamber. Depending on your other variables like coil, wattage, and juice viscosity, juice flow can be a critical factor. If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod.
    Wick Material
    • There are many materials in use for wicking including silica, hemp, ramie, cotton, rayon, ceramic, and more. Changing materials can improve or degrade your attys ability to supply juice. If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod. The more power hungry your coil, the better your wicking needs to be.
    Wick Density
    • This is how hard, or tight, you are packing your wick. Different materials need different handling. For example rayon tends to shrink after it gets wet, so you should pack it tighter, cotton tends to swell so you should leave it fluffier, silica just sucks. Anyway, if you dont adjust the density of your wick to match the material then you can negatively affect juice supply. If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod.
    Juice Viscosity
    • The viscosity of your juice has to match your wicking system. High VG is thicker, high PG is thinner. If you starve a coil for juice, the temperature WILL rise on a non-TC mod. If your juice is too thin you could flood your atty, which will also change temp.
    Ambient Temperature
    • Depending on your ratios, ambient temperature can negatively affect juice supply by changing its viscosity. On a very cold day a heavy VG juice will not flow well at all. On a really hot day a heavy PG juice could flood your tank and even leak. Either way, with all else being equal, it can change the temp of your coil.

    User Discipline:
    MTL vs DL
    • Mouth to Lung versus Direct Lung hits definitely change the airflow going across the coil. For example, I measured 10 times more pressure differential when doing Direct Lung hits. Again, if you change the airflow you will affect the temp of a coil on a non TC mod.
    Strength/Volume
    • This is similar to the above, but more subtle. What we are talking about is how HARD are you hitting the mod. More volume and/or velocity of air and you will affect the temp of a coil on a non TC mod.
    Chain Hits
    • Chain hitting a non TC mod will definitely, and sometimes very significantly increase the coil temperature. I have proven this with direct thermocouple measurements. What happens is the coil doesnt get a chance to cool between chain hits, so subsequent hits are already starting with a preheated coil. The more chain hits in a row, the hotter the coil will get each time.
    Length
    • How long of a hit are you taking. I have proven that in most cases, the longer the hit, the hotter a coil gets in a non TC mod.
    User selection of Air/Juice Flow
    • On many attys, the air and/or juice flowrate is adjustable. Changing these settings will affect the temperature of your coil. Could be hotter or cooler, it depends on what and how you adjust.
    User’s technique in assembling
    • This applies more to rebuidable or DIY type setups. The technique you use to build a coil, or wick it, any little "mods" you make (like poking holes in the cotton on a cartridge), can definitely affect the coil temperature.
    User selected settings on Mod
    • In other words, what Volt or Watt level are you setting it at.



    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.
  15. Note: the context of this test was in trying to understand why Dr Kurt @Kurt found so many carcinogens in Gen 2 devices, and hardly any in Gen 3 devices. Most Gen 2 devices used silica in a top coil configuration, where Gen 3 introduced cotton, and other materials, in bottom coil configurations.
    *************************************************************

    OK, so the "capillary" action of silica vs modern alternatives was killing me, couldnt get it out of my head all day. So whats a geek to do? TEST!

    • Stock silica from a VV nova was 5cm long and weighed 0.09g
    • I cut a length of rayon to match, 5cm long and 0.09g in weight
    • Mixed some 50/50 pg/vg juice with a dab of pro food coloring
    • Placed each sample inside of an identical clear tube
    • Placed both tubes in a beaker and added juice
    I am not a videographer, and this is a new phone so forgive the poor quality. It shows the start of the test, but I accidentally cut the camera off before it was finished.



    So I waited a few minutes and took a still pic:

    [​IMG]

    Notice the juice had barely got about half way up the silica, but if you looked from top down you could see the juice had reached the very top of the rayon.

    So I weighed the juice content of each wick since I knew the tare weights.
    • Silica wick contained 0.33g of liquid
    • Rayon wick contained 1.2g of liquid
    The poor performance of silica might well be the culprit in the Gen 2 tests performed by Dr Kurt. I.e. coil was being starved for juice.


    *************************************
    OK, I am officially sticking my neck out here! If you care about coil temp, and some evidence says you should, DO NOT USE STOCK COILS that rely on silica wicks!
    *************************************

    So I did another test, comparing rayon and silica in a modern atty.

    This time I built a coil, then used the exact same atty, mod, coil, and juice, the ONLY change was swapping out the wick. I used Ekowool braided silica which is considered to be the most premium available. (Keep in mind that stock wicks use the cheap stuff)

    • Measured only in watts as my Vamo did not like the low resistance of the coil, so I had to use my DNA in power mode instead.
    • Coils was a 6/7 wrap of SS430 around a #33 drillbit (~2.9mm) and ohmed out to be 0.43 ohms. Same exact coil used for both wicks. I just rewicked the coil.
    • Did not measure fiber weight, I prepared each wick like I would have done if I was building it for myself. Cut to proper length and fluffed and tucked on both, etc.
    • Juice flow was 80% for all tests.
    • Airflow was 100% for all tests.
    Silica SUCKS (or rather - it doesnt!)


    Test Results:
    [​IMG]


    Test Porn:
    Threaded the probe
    [​IMG]

    Built the first wick
    [​IMG]

    Ready to test:
    [​IMG]

    Shows silica was fully saturated:
    [​IMG]

    Type of silica used:
    [​IMG]





    ©2017 Mike Petro. This is an open access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License, which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original author and source are credited.

    Attached Files:

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