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  1. Prepper - White BG - SIG.png
    J.d. Roberts likes this.


    These posts cut through the ECF FDA Deeming threads that are more than 500 pages combined. This document is to get you talking abt what you need to do, and then jump in to the FDA Deeming threads. I'm sure that I missed many things and you are welcome to pour over them HERE.

    I'm not finished stocking up. This is my main document for now.

    Make a very short list with 5 specific items to work on obtaining. This is my needs list right now. Your list will be completely different. Read the documents below to see what I am doing.

    This is what my short list looks like right now:

    * 8 - RX200S

    * 4 - Twisted Messes RDA Squared
    * 8 - Replacement Parts for TMSquared RDA (TM²)
    * 8 - Replacement Screws for TMSquared RDA (TM²)
    * 8 - Twisted Messes RDA Squared BASES

    * 50 - premade alien coils unless you plan to start making them today

    * 1 - Scale

    * Liters of PG(2), VG(4)

    * order the bottles/glassware that you need for DIY

    * look over the e-liquid recipie docs that I have, pick the top 5 recipies out, order the goods, and get cracking.


    Unless FDA Deeming Rules are changed vaping shops will close by the thousands across the USA, vaping related products will face shortages, costs will rise, and will probably be pulled from the marketplace at which time they will become unavailable.

    This document is in response to the FDA Deeming Regulations/Laws, as well as State, County, City laws which come in to effect starting 08/08/2016 regarding tobacco products. Vaping, the products and e-liquids in their entirety have been declared tobacco products.

    Shipping of tobacco products may be banned within the US. We are waiting to see what happens after 8/8/2016.

    For buying goods from overseas, it has been reported that the FDA may already be cracking down on foreign vendors shipping to clients within the USA.
    - ECF: @retired1 "The FDA has already sent letters out to the various shipping agencies. It's coming and it's coming fast."
    - ECF: @retired1 "If it's an international shipment, the contents of the package are going to be on the customs slip. Anything e-cig related is slated for inspection starting next month."
    - ECF: @retired1 "Bear in mind, after August 8th, all vape related items will be considered a restricted item (tobacco)."


    --Vape goods being sold before 2007 can remain available indefinitely at this point in time
    --After August 8, 2016 no new products or changes to existing products are allowed
    --Manufacturers of ALL e-liquids or vaping related products will have up to two years to submit FDA PMTA applications for products that have come to market after April 15, 2007 (KNOWN AS THE PREDICATE DATE) so that they may be reviewed for fitness within the market in accordance with FDA intents and purposes for tobacco products.
    --The FDA PMTA review process is estimated to take a year and cost as much as $1 million per product
    --There will be very few PMTA applications submit with most (if not all) coming from Big Tobacco
    --There is no way of knowing if the FDA will approve any PMTA applications, as in the past few new tobacco products have been allowed to be marketed as tobacco products after the initial set of FDA regulations became law
    --For products not passing the PMTA process, they must be withdrawn from the market
    --It is expected that scarcity or the lack of vaping products will occur across all segments of the market


    --Remove tobacco classification because vaping products are primarily 100% tobacco free
    --Change the predicate date from April 15, 2007 to the current date in (2016/2017/...) for the Pre-Market Tobacco Applications process (PMTA).
    --Requesting a Substantial Equivalence (SE) Report instead of PMTA, so that all products that are essentially similar in operation to that which has already been accepted to also be accepted and allowed to be sold
    --Overturn the ban on FREE SAMPLES so that vendors can send samples out to vapers


    ECF: @Mazinny, "By 2010, eighteen states, the District of Columbia, and three U.S. territories securitized some or all of their revenue entitlements from the MSA (TOBACCO: Master Settlement Agreement) payment schedule into bonds. The issued bonds totaled $40 billion and are backed by expected future MSA payments." (These bonds would eventually be worthless to the states if vaping continued to grow as it has b/c it is demolishing the market for cigarettes and has so far not been aggressively regulated or taxed.)
    williamclarkonet likes this.

    #1) The Next 90 Days - Stage One
    #2) The Following 90 Days - Stage Two

    Cover all in STAGE ONE over the next 90 days, then start on STAGE TWO.

    It is really that simple. We are trying to help you build out out supplies for 10 to 20 years in 180 days (6 MONTHS MAX).

    YOU must ask or know what your vaping plans are; what is my "vaping style," and do I have enough on hand to get me through the next 10 to 20 years if I plan to continue vaping and supplies are cut off?

    YOU are going to be responsible for your own inventory and preparation of vapable e-liquids. There will be few websites and few stores that can help you.

    This ride DOES NOT end until 2018 when we will see the full extant of the FDA Regulations.



    The only time that selling old stock to buy new stock makes any sense is if we are talking about rotating out aged nicotine and pg/vg. I'll be engaging in this with ppl who vape, who are in need of supplies. I'll get rid of old stock at a 10% to 20% discount from my list price, and replace it with new stock as long as availability and price are reasonable. When the ban hammer falls on nicotine, I want to have the most fresh stock that I can get.

    On Hand
    I have 4500ml of Nude Nicotine Armor v1/v2 at my folks place and 3500 ml of Nude Nicotine Armor v1/v2 at my place. All are being stored in freezers to reduce oxidation and extend the life of the nicotine out beyond 10 years.

    What to Buy
    I'm buying Nude Nicotine Armor v1 and v2(in amber glass w argon gas) in 125ml to 250ml bottles. The smaller bottles mean that I do not have to break down the liquids when I open them. This is the recommended practice on the Nude Nicotine website.

    Nobody can afford to buy all things at once. Nicotine is the most important item in Stage One. Keep ordering liters of nic every month (or better) until supplies are cut off.

    Order all stock in 125ml and 250ml BOTTLES so that you do not have to break open large bottles of nic base that you do not plan to use immediately. We are trying to have all supplies last for more than 10 years.

    If you buy nicotine base in plastic bottles, you will need to repackage it for long term storage due to the leeching of chemicals from the plastic.

    Where to Buy
    There are several providers of nicotine base. Nude Nicotine is just one of many. You might also contact: Wizard Labs, Essential Depot, Bull City Vapor, Bulk Apothecary, NicotineRiver, MyFreedomSmokes...

    Notes On Nicotine
    - Oxidation does NOT affect the strength of nicotine. It only alters the color (flavor also may change to more peppery). However, consumers tend to prefer the product to be as clear as possible. This is the reason that we use Modified Atmosphere Packing, in order to reduce the rate of oxidation. Yes there is a change between PG and VG. PG has a slightly greater shelf life than VG.


    An example: If your own use is 8ml/day of 12mg/ml how much nicotine do you need for 20 years?

    12mg * 8ml/day = 96mg/day

    365 days in a year

    96 * 365 ~= 35,050mg/year

    100,000 [1 liter of 100 mg/ml / 35,050 ~= 2.853 years per liter

    I rounded down to 2.5 below

    20 years / 2.5 = 8 liters or 2 GALLONS

    - As long as you do not have allergies to PG/VG rotate the PG/VG in your nicotine base purchases in case you will require 100%PG/VG in a batch of e-liquid in the future. i.e. Order one bottle of nic base 100% PG, and order one bottle of 100% VG. If you need one or the other, it will be on hand.
    - VG mixes with PG better if you add the VG into your PG, rather than the other way around.
    - Since liquid nic doesn't freeze solid, once removed from the freezer it doesn't need to be thawed. However, since both PG and VG are highly hygroscopic and will pull/absorb moisture from the air, ice cold nic should be allowed to warm to room temperature before opening the bottle. Otherwise condensation would rapidly form and be directly absorbed.

    Nude Nicotine Armor v2: If you need to open a bottle to break it down in to smaller bottles: do not open the bottle before it reaches a room temperature (to avoid condensation). Do the transfer, and refreeze what you can.

    If you have the money for Argon gas, spray the argon gas in to the bottle and reseal to reduce oxidation. (More information on argon gas below.)

    ECF @Rossum "Oxidation will stop when all the oxygen in the bottle is used up. The whole point of putting it in glass is to prevent more oxygen from getting in there after it's sealed up. Kurt has done calculations on how much oxygen is available in a sealed bottle of base, both in the headspace and dissolved in the carriers. The maximum loss of potency due to oxidation in a well-sealed glass bottle is negligible. Moreover, people have pulled nic out of the freezer that's 6 years old and report no change in color, smell, or taste compared to when they put it in there. Properly stored, I don't think there's any reason to believe it won't last indefinitely."
    - Safety and safety gear - This should be self explanatory but remember Nicotine solution is toxic in large mg amounts so all safety precautions should be observed. In smaller amounts such as 12mg, 18mg, 24mg it’s not a serious issue just wash it off your skin right away. Larger quantities can be more serious especially if ingested. I recommend viewing the following video and bookmark it for future reference. It explains safety in all aspects of DYI.

    This is a must view video on DIY SAFETY.

    - 2 GALLON ZIP LOCK BAGS for storage of nic in Freezer. Then write on the outside of the bag or make use of a label maker:


    NIC BASE: 100mg/ml
    AMOUNT: 500ml / 250ml / 125ml
    TYPE: Armor v1/v2, Glass/Plastic bottle

    2 GALLON BAGS Ziploc Storage Bags 2 Gallon, 12 Count (Pack Of 3): Health & Personal Care

    FREEZER 2 GALLON - PREVENTS FREEZER BURN Ziploc Freezer Bags 2 Gallon 10 Count (Pack Of 3): Health & Personal Care

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: 2+ liters each of PG/VG)

    What to buy
    - ECF: @Rossum You want palm derived
    - LOOK FOR: USP and pharmaceutical grade labels.

    Where to buy it
    - PG and VG can be purchased from same place you obtain nic or flavorings
    - CVS Pharmacy, Nude Nicotine, Wizard Labs, Essential Depot, Bull City Vapor, Bulk Apothecary, NicotineRiver, MyFreedomSmokes. If supplies are in any way cut off, Walmart, Tractor Supply or a Farm and Fleet probably carry USP PG.

    - typical reply is to store in a cool dark place
    - ECF: @choochoogranny said "putting your vg/pg in the freezer shouldn't be a problem. After all, our nic bases containing Pg/Vg are stored there.......for yrs."
    - ECF: @Rossum "I've seen nothing that indicates they [PG/VG] wouldn't stay good indefinitely, especially in a well-sealed glass bottle with minimal head-space."
    - ECF @Rossum "I look at it all as cheap insurance. For what I used to spend on cigs every 2 weeks, I've got enough PG and VG to make juice for myself for the next 15 years."
    - ECF @bnrkwest "I have some 4 yrs old, seems fine but I think long term in glass would be better. "
    - According to Dow Chemical, PG stored under 40C (104F) has a shelf life of two years. It can be theorized that in a freezer, it will last longer, but there's no hard data. However, I've used (and tested) industrial grade PG that showed NO degradation after five years of storage in unopened 55 gallon drums stored in a non-climate controlled warehouse

    Is PG/VG Safe?
    - ECF: @Two_Bears "PG is used in flavor extracts, animal safe antifreeze, in ice cream, and lots more. VG is used in Wine production, asca sweetener, preservative, hand lotion, soap production, etc."

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: start ordering flavors) ORDER FLAVORS (start making 100% of your juice so that you know what it takes)

    Start ordering flavors for recipies that you have found and desire to make. Do not buy flavors without knowing what they are for. They may end up being useless.



    Plan is to make key lime pie, make lemonade, as well as "yellow" banana taffy. At times, I may vape both key lime pie and lemonade liquids in my RDA simultaneously.

    SAMPLE: Key Lime Pie, ECF: @brian11111

    key lime la 9%
    graham cracker tfa 4%
    marshmallow la 3%
    whipped cream tfa 3%
    vanilla swirl tfa 3%

    Ordered the following from Bull City Vapor
    Banana-FA (Size: 10ml)
    Graham Cracker Clear-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Key Lime-FW (Size: 10ml)
    Key Lime-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Marshmallow-LA (Size: 10ml)
    Vanilla Swirl-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Whipped Cream-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Banana-FW (Size: 10ml)
    Lemonade-FW (Size: 10ml)
    Orange Dream Bar-FW (Size: 10ml)
    Lemon-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Ripe Banana-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Sweetener-TFA (Size: 10ml)
    Sweet Tangerine-Cap (Size: 13ml Original Bottle)
    Raspberry V2-Cap (Size: 13ml Original Bottle)

    Stacio - RY4U

    FLAVOR: tfa(allegedly the best) -> fa -> cap

    - CAP: Capella
    - FA: Flavour Art. (FA is usually referring to FlavourArt, which is totally a different company than The Flavor Apprentice(TFA))
    - FW: Flavor West
    - INW: Inawaera
    - LA: LorAnn (Be careful with insoluble flavors. Insoluble flavors are not recommended for beginning DIY)
    - TFA: The Flavor Apprentice (also known as The Perfumer's Apprentice or TPA...but you are wise NOT to use TPA. It's perfume!!!)
    - TW: Totally Wicked

    - ECF: @rosesense "For what it is worth, I have flavorings that are 7 years old and they seem to be fine. Perhaps a bit weaker but still usable."

    - ECF: @Rossum "Have you [ever] tried filling the bottle with unflavored and dripping in flavored from the top [of the RDA] when you need/want it?"

    - Buy DIY flavors until they are blocked. Note: most people think they may not be blocked, but that the businesses catering to vapers will face stiff headwinds to staying open with the downturn in the vaping market.

    - Call around to kitchen/restaurant supply houses to see if they will order it for you. Just don't tell them what it is for.... I'M USING IT FOR COOKING. "Make sure they are water based and NOT oil based. There are two types."

    - I've had the same flavor from the same manufacturer taste different from different vendors. As almost everybody rebottles the concentrates, be careful with who you buy it from.

    - Never buy big bottles of any flavor until you know that flavor and manufacturer. If something like Green Apple is your favorite flavor, do yourself a favor and sample at least the following 5 flavor makers - TFA, Capella, Flavor West, Flavourart and Inawera. Then, when you find the one that's right for you - buy a big bottle. sells in larg quantities

    - You may also find 2 or more flavors that you really like but there's that something still missing....element. I would suggest to try [two or more flavors from different vendors] mixed together. This often lends another depth to the eliquid and may get closer to what you are looking for. It doesn't have to be an even amt for each flavor. Just play with it.

    - Hangsen is definitely your best bet if you're in to tobacco flavors

    - When blending your own, to avoid disappointment always make note of that manufacturer, not just the flavour. Take copious notes and do not repeat mistakes.

    - Some of the inawera flavors can turn your juice to cough syrup at anything over 5%

    - Technically no, flavors do not go bad like you think of with food or drinks. Flavors do change over time having an effect on the taste of the flavor. We suggest that flavors be used within 9 months of purchase for best results. As far as storage goes, flavors are best stored in glass rather than plastic (which is why we sell our 10, 30, and 120 mL bottles of flavorings in glass) because flavors can react with the plastic and ruin both the plastic and the flavor. Also, they should be stored in a cool, dark place (not the refrigerator).


    (Link to ECF APV Discussions)

    - I have 12 box mods right now (2 of which are unregulated). They are all decent mods for the long haul (1 Mech - Scotts Mods Vet, 1 Mech - MVC Raptor, 1 - 75W Sig, 1 - 150W Sig, 2 - Sig 213, 4 - Sig Fuchai 213, 2 - RX200S). Considering 6 more RX200s, and 2 more mech box mods.
    - DO NOT buy a mod with an internal battery (non replaceable). Look for mods that use 18650 batteries due to availability.
    - DO NOT buy a mechanical mod unless you know what you are doing. Disaster awaits you unless you are prepared to know "Ohms law" and watch over the vaping process incessantly.

    Buy vs Have

    BOX Mods - Regulated
    - 2 - Sigelei 213 (DONE. BOUGHT: 2)
    - 4 - Sigelei 213 Fuchai (DONE. BOUGHT: 4)

    - 10 - WISMEC RX200s (BOUGHT: 2)

    BOX - Mechanical
    If the electronics gives out in a regulated mod I can easily convert it to a mosfet mech or a VV Hexohm type of mod. The chips hexohm uses are off the shelf std electronics parts not vaping specific.

    - 1 - Scotts Mods (DONE. BOUGHT: 1)
    - 1 - MVC Raptor (DONE. BOUGHT : 1)
    - 1 - Hex Ohm VV (Digikey sells the exact same DC/DC converter used in the Hexohm mods.) (BOUGHT: 0)
    - 2 - BC Boxes (18650 serial/parallel switch box) (BOUGHT: 0)

    - IF the 510 does not fit flush, buy "510 Varitube v2" connectors for the RX200s and DNA200s that you plan on working on, AND extra 510 connectors in case any of them breaks, so that you can fix them.

    - Provari Provape (If you cannot afford the top of the line mod, look for the blems, they are much cheaper.) (BOUGHT: 0)

    ECF @LoriP1702 "SEE 2.5 mini, with extension cap. AND, you can get the extension ring, and run 18650's. ProVari 3 Extension Ring (using the extension cap and the extension ring) or, 18350 in mini mode. I also really like the V2.5, with extension cap, that allows you to run 18650's as well. Both mods can be found in the "specials" section for AWESOME pricing."

    - GUS Mod (BOUGHT: 0)
    - HCigar Nemisis Clone (BOUGHT: 0)
    - Wismec Vicino (Can fire a coil down to 0.15 ohms. Suggested 0.2 ohms. Has board that cuts off when voltage gets too low.)
    - Limitless

    Long Term Electronics Storage

    - ProVape said to store ProVaris for - possibly - decades, using a silica-gel packet in each mod box, and then store the boxes in a cool, dry place.
    - Some of us have horridly humid summers. So I'd add that putting each boxed mod in a ZIPLOCK BAG would be cheap extra insurance.


    (Link to ECF Rebuildable Atomizer Discussions)

    - Had 4 Aspire Atlantis II, and 1 - Aspire Triton before starting to stock up

    - 4 - Kayfun V5 RTA $120ea (Buy 8 or more of ea of the following parts: o-rings, extra glass and peek insulators, extra drip tips, extra bases) (BOUGHT: 2)

    - 10 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA (BOUGHT: 2 original; 1 clone)
    - Buy a Clone (Tobeco: $15 at Vaportek; Unknown clone: $24 at Vapor Geekz), and make sure all parts are similar, then order more
    - 20 - Twisted Messes Squared RDA bases (BOUGHT: 4)

    - 6 - Velocity V2 RDA ($120 Authentic; Clone $20 at Vapor Geekz; $16 at Vape NW) (BOUGHT: 0)
    - Buy 20 extra spare parts for same (bases, peek insulators, o-rings, drip tips)

    - 6 - GeekVape Tsunami 24 RDA (Gets hot: Do NOT buy model w glass window, b/c it gets juice all over it and is next to useless. supports squonking w pin) ($40+) ($20 at Vaportek without windows) (BOUGHT: 0)
    - Buy 20 extra spare parts for same (bases, peek insulators, o-rings, drip tips)

    - 24mm
    - nitrogen treated post screws
    - 3 drip tips in package
    - extras in package
    - velocity style posts
    - deck has 4 grub screws, 2 posts
    - 7mm deep juice well

    - 6 - Aspire Atlanis II Pyrex (BOUGHT: 2 )
    - 4+ - Aspire Atlanis II atomizer boxes (buy 0.3 ohm, 5 atomizers per box)

    - 2 - Mako Shorty RDA (BOUGHT: 1)
    - 2 - Mako Shorty RDA delrin drip tips (BOUGHT: 0)
    choochoogranny likes this.

    - 1 - digital scale. Does no good to have flavors and no scale for mixing.


    - You are going to need this before doing any DIY. You need it to reseal bottles of nic, and bottles of e-liquid you make in large batches...NOT RECOMMENDED.

    - Sold as "Wine preserver" but it is argon gas spray. It is more dense than air and you spray it in the bottle. It allegedly settles on top of the liquid you are trying to preserve. Is not poisonous, and does not damage e-liquids or nicotine.

    - label maker
    - waterproof labels
    - if not a label maker possibly use masking tape and perm marker



    For mixing bottles you are looking for:
    - I use glass bottles from for storage of my unflavored 35-100 mg VG nic juice. The ones with eurodropper inserts, since I use them for syringe dispensing. Just stick an 18 gauge blunt needle through the center hole. With these inserts, accidental spill, which is a DISASTER with 100 mg juice, is eliminated. I use 50 mL bottles (although given how fast I go through them, I should have used 30 mL), fill them almost to the rim, put in the insert and screw on the cap.

    I store them in the freezer. As long as they are brought to room temp before opening them, the liquid will not absorb much water from the air. I pull out one bottle at a time for juice making. I just pulled out a 100 mg VG bottle stored since January, and it has not even discolored compared to the original very slightly yellow, as in VERY slightly yellow. In my freezer, PG and VG do not freeze (I have some DV PG juice stored too), nor do they expand. VG becomes VERY thick, like rubber cement at the temp of my freezer. I have not tested for nic content, but the juices I make now are in my opinion no less potent than when I got the juice fresh.

    Glass Boston round bottles with poly-cone caps are ideal (most premium e-juice comes in Boston round glass bottles). Choose a size that provides you about a 6 months nic supply that way you can pull just what you need from the freezer when it's needed. Fill each bottle so that there's a minimum head space to reduce the amount of air trapped/sealed inside, the small tapered neck on Boston rounds are ideal for minimizing head space/trapped air. Be sure to label the bottles with content and the date stored for stock rotation

    - 30ml(buy 20), 60ml(buy 10) for vaping
    - 30ml(buy 4)/60ml(buy 4)/125ml(buy 4)/250ml(buy 4) to store nic/pg/vg. Don't take a 500ml bottle of nic out of freezer and use just 30ml or less!
    - 10ml/20ml/125ml(buy 4) for mixing before you knock it down to 30ml/60ml for use in vaping. ECF: @Mowgli recommends 1oz/2oz for mixing tests...but that seems very small

    Go back and checkoff what you have above. Do you have what is considered the most important for your collection? Circle what you do not have or do not understand and ask for clarification on ECF.

    Read through the following and get ready for more depth as you become nearly self sufficient in vaping.


    - Professional Jeweler's Lighted Magnifier Visor (AMAZON) for wrapping coils.

    GeekVape has staple staggered claptons and alien claptons

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: ORDER SS316L & NICHROME WIRE BY THE LB OR WHATEVER YOU CAN AFFORD.) (whatever is rqd for claptons, twisted(2 and 4 strand), std wires)

    - 1 - variable speed, reversible drill for making twisted and clapton wire

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: 10) ORDER 10+ LIGHTNING VAPES: CLAPTON: watch the coil gauge


    Minimum to buy for ea TYPE (Kanthal(PWR), SS 316L(TC, PWR, or TCR), SS430(TCR), NiCr80(????)) ordered FROM Lightning Vapes, Unkaman, Rio Grande ( and TEMco

    Stainless Steel Notes:
    - 316 series has a safety rating of 95 (A+).
    - ECF: @suprtrkr on SS "Use a screw for wrapping if you want to try a spaced SS coil"
    - ECF: @Elvensilvan "If you are going (to do) TC (with 316L), then spaced coils are better so that the mod chip can accurately read the coil's temperature."

    Kanthal Notes:
    - has a safety rating of 88 (B+) found in many different gauges (PRETTY SAFE: composite of iron, chromium, aluminum: these metals do not leach).

    Nickel Ni200 Notes:
    - WARNINGS: Don't dry burn Nickel or Titanium. Don't pulse the coils. Don't wrap tightly to get a single hot spot, the metal leaches, and also releases nickel carbonol which causes cancer according to rating is F. Nickel and Titanium coils are a NO NO on any mech mod.

    SO FAR HAVE: Buy both Kanthal A1 and SS 316L
    - 22 awg - BUY 2500+ feet
    BUY: 250ft 24ga 316L for $9.00

    - 24 awg - BUY 5000+ feet
    Have: 10m Kanthal A1
    Have: 600ft 316L

    BUY: 250ft 24ga nichrome for $15
    BUY: 250ft 24ga 316L for $10.00
    BUY: 250ft 24ga Kanthal BULK PACK for $30.00

    - 26 awg - BUY 5000+ feet
    Have: 25ft 26ga Ti
    Have: 250ft 26ga 316L

    BUY: 250ft 26ga nichrome for $15
    BUY: 250ft 26ga 316L for $8.00
    BUY: 250ft 26ga Kanthal BULK PACK for $25.00

    - 28 awg - BUY 5000+ feet
    Have: 250ft 316L

    BUY: 250ft 28ga nichrome for $15
    BUY: 250ft 28ga 316L for $9.75
    BUY: 250ft 28ga Kanthal BULK PACK for $20.00

    - 30 awg - BUY 1000+ feet
    - 32 awg - BUY 1000+ feet
    - 36 awg - BUY 5000+ feet for clapton(EX: 36 OUTER over 26 INNER)

    BUY: 250ft 36ga Kanthal for $

    - 38 awg - BUY 5000+ ft for clapton (GrimmGreen: Fused clapton 28ga wrapped with 38ga)

    - 40 awg - BUY 5000+ feet for clapton

    - Ribbon Wire (Lightning Vapes: For Alien Staple Coils)
    0.5x0.1mm - BUY 5000 feet
    Have: 100ft Kanthal A1

    - Clapton
    Have: 25ft - 34k/24n
    Have: 50ft - 36k/26ss
    Have: 75ft - 36k/28ss

    NOTE! It is always a thicker wire wrapped by a thinner wire.

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: buy 10) SPOOL TAMER (for wire on spools)

    ## BATTERIES from Orbtronic, Illumn or >>RTDVapor<<

    ECF information on Ohms Law HERE


    @Rossum If the supply gets cut off: "cordless power tool battery packs are a safe choice; they will have high-drain cell in them."

    "a 40% charge is usually recommended for storage. I figure around 3.6v + or so."

    "I like to keep them at 3.6-3.7V, because that's where all the new batteries I've received have been, and I figure the manufacturers know what they're doing. I have some spare batteries that have never been put in service. I try to check them a few times a year and take them back to 3.7V if they've fallen below 3.6V."

    "Some devices will eventually drain the battery below safe levels, destroying the batteries. Do NOT leave them in a device or corrosion will occur!"

    ECF @Mooch Battery Tests

    - 2 - BATTERY CHARGER: buy the very best 4 battery, 18650/26650 (LOOK FOR MODEL "XTAR VC4") (BOUGHT: 1 USB charging kit; BOUGHT: 2 Wall adapters)


    - ECF: @retired1 :: You should never charge the battery above 4.2v, nor let it get below 3.2v.
    - ECF: @Baditude :: The processor in a regulated mod decides whether your battery(s) have enough amps (current) available to fire whatever coil you have on the mod. If the processor sees that there is not enough battery power available, it will display on the screen that there is not enough power. So no worries about over-taxing your batteries in a regulated mod. That's the beauty of regulated mods and protection circuitry. Now, in a mechanical mod (no processor), its an entirely different story. You must do calculations yourself to make sure that your coil build will not pull more amps than the battery has to give, or very bad things can happen.
    - ECF: @zoiDman :: What you Really need to do if you are going to use an Unregulated Device is to Know How to Calculate the Amps the Battery will be asked to provide based on the Resistance of your Build. Then you take the Constant Discharge Rate (CDR) that the Battery is Rated for and subtract about 15% for some "Headroom". Than the you set the Lowest Resistance so it does Not Exceed the CDR for the Battery you are planning on using.
    - ECF: @MMcQ :: Best bet for storing batteries long term is at 40% capacity at 0 C. See "How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries" at Battery University. That's about 3.85 volts according to the link so having the shop charge them and then draining them down should be ok and if stored in a freezer then a moisture barrier should be used. That's only for a year though so I would guess that you should check them after that long and charge up as necessary. Just my opinion though.
    - ECF: @Mooch :: Two years of storage is a long time. Even under perfect conditions you're going to lose some capacity and the internal resistance will go up. How much will be determined by the storage conditions.
    - ECF: @sig-cmt :: Take a look at the technical documents for the cells you plan on purchasing. For the HG2, nominal specifications for shipping storage indicate -20 to 20°C for a period of one year at approximately 40% of a full charge.
    - ECF: @Baditude :: When you build your coil and fire it on your mod, it will draw a specific amount of current (amps) from the battery. That current must not be more than the total amps in continuous discharge rate of the battery, or very bad things could happen. BOOM! Always tend to err on the side of safety when you make your builds by allowing some safety head room.

    1.0 ohm = 4.2 amp draw
    0.9 ohm = 4.6 amp draw
    0.8 ohm = 5.2 amp draw
    0.7 ohms = 6 amp draw
    0.6 ohms = 7 amp draw
    0.5 ohms = 8.4 amp draw
    0.4 ohms = 10.5 amp draw
    0.3 ohms = 14.0 amp draw
    0.2 ohms = 21.0 amp draw
    0.1 ohms = 42.0 amp draw
    0.0 ohms = dead short = battery goes into thermal runaway?

    Everyone is free to set their own parameters, and I can only say what mine are.

    I try to never exceed 50% of the CDR (continuous discharge rating) of a fully charged battery (4.2v). So with a 20A batteries, that would be 10A. The above Ohm's Law Calculator tells me that a .4 ohm build is as low as I would want to use.

    The reason that I place a 50% limit is because as a battery ages the mAh of the battery degrades, as the mAh degrades so does the batteries c rating (amp limit). So down the road, your 20A battery may only be a 10A battery.

    Lower Ohm Coils Will:
    - Heat The Coil Faster
    - Produce More Vapor
    - Drain The Battery Faster
    - Use E-Juice Faster
    - Produce A Warmer Tasting Vape

    Higher Ohm Coils Will:
    - Heat The Coil Slower, Which Will Produce “Less” Vapor
    - Provide A “Cooler” Tasting Vape
    - Use Less E-Juice
    - Prolong Battery Life

    - 2 - long plastic under bed containers (keep batteries at desk near computer, and liquids in the fridge/freezer) OR Rigid Tool Box System.

    - Deep Storage Freezer, no defrost may be the best bet. Looking for minimum temp of -20 CENTIGRADE if at all possible.

    Whether storing your nicotine in a refrigerator freezer OR deep storage freezer you may consider placing all of the nicotine in Zip Lock bags, or in a plastic container. Completely surrounding it with thin sheets of Styrofoam would be good too.

    - Battery Backup UPS for Freezer in case of a power outage


    ORDER 2ND COILMASTER 521(or other quality ohm reader), 2 COILMASTER MATs, 2 COIL REMOVAL TOOLS(YELLOW), 2 VAPE CARRYING POUCHES, 2 v3 coil wrapping tools,

    Check to see what CoilMaster (or other lab company that supplies you need) has for sale that you want.

    ## (NEXT 90 DAYS: BUY ALL) Label maker, non conductive tweezers, wire snips, mixing bottles, nicotine test kits, battery powered drill FWD/REV/ADJ Speed, fishing tackle swivels, Argon gas spray, scale, (desiccant) silica for packing electronics away, O-rings, screws, ultrasonic cleaner, BUY TWO 510 Vulcan(BEST) heat sink (so you don't destroy 510 threads on mod ... and use a dab of removable Locktight to secure the heat sink to the mod so it does not FK up the threads. MUST BE ELECTRICALLY CONDUCTIVE!!!), Battery wraps, ...


    You need to buy high quality hex driver for the Twisted Messes SQ RDA. The shipped one is not that great, and then I would replace the screws with better screws.

    Contact Twisted Messes for the size of the O-rings, screws...see if you can purchase separately. If there is someone in your area who does optometry/watch/clock repair they likely have the correct sized screws. Take the O-rings and screws to "Menards/optometry/watch/clock repair" and have them measured with calipers.

    Orings and More | Affordable and Quality Gaskets and Seals

    Check McMaster Carr: But as for RDAs, whether they use Phillips head screws, or grub screws, just about everything will be M2, M2.5, or M3. If it's American made, they may be 4-40.

    Model shops for toy trains, toys, quad-copters, etc.

    Check Fastech if all else fails.
    $8.14 Replacement Phillips + Hexagonal Screw for DIY E-Cigarettes (200 Pieces) 200-pack - stainless steel at FastTech - Worldwide Free Shipping

    ECF: @avpx1 Recommended O-Ring Shelf life
    - 5 years: Polyurethane (millable), SBR, Natural Rubber, Polybutadine, Polyisoprene
    - 15 years: Nitrile, Neoprene, HNBR, Polyacrylate, Butyl
    - Unlimited: Ethylene Propylene, Fluorocarbon, Perfluorinated Elastomer, Silicone, Tetrafluoroethylene Propylene (Aflas®), Fluorosilicone.


    - Scale: Amazon - American Weigh Scales LB-501 Digital Kitchen Scale $23.00

    - CON:::: When I'm mixing by percentage i use 2 syringes, a cup with an pure alcohol and that's it. One syringe is for Nicotine, PG and VG, the other one is for flavors. After each flavor clean the syringe in alcohol and and go to next flavor and that's it. When i'm done i soak the syringes in the jar of alcohol for couple hours, usually over night, in the morning dry them out and put them back in secure storage. This method is not most precise, but it is consistent, and never had problems with it. Tried with weight and drops couple times, ended up pouring everything down the sink
    - for mixing by weight you need an application to convert ingredients to weight measurements. Your scale should read to to the hundredth (.01) to be percise enough for mixing juice.
    - The ejuice me up calculator already gives you grams. Just punch in your info on the left and on the right it will give you the recipe in mls, drops and grams. You use the grams for weighing. You have to go to tools and grams set and set the weights. I read somewhere that pg was approx 1.038g, VG 1.26 G and flavouring varied but most use 1g. Not sure of the nicotine. Mine is 50/50 so I might have to weigh it first as well.
    - I use 1.06g for nic, 1.08g for pg, and 1.27g for vg. I have the flavor set at 1.03. Any adjustments I make in the recipe I make by adjusting the %'s. I also use the ejuice me up calc.
    - The only thing with the ejuicemeup when setting your mixes to grams from mls is you have to save the new grams page as default and redo all your mixes into the new grams default. It wont automatically save your grams setting into your old mixes.

    This might help:
    Weight of PG: 1.038 grams per ml
    Weight of VG: 1.26 grams per ml
    Weight of Pure Nicotine: 1.01 grams per ml
    Weight of 100mg in PG: 1.0352 grams per ml
    Weight of 100mg in VG: 1.235 grams per ml
    48mg 50VG/50PG based nicotine solution 1.14 grams per ml.
    Flavors range of .93g per ml to 1.07g per ml.

    I have the 48nic weight since I cut my 100 into 48 for my own convenience. I run all my flavorings at 1 gram per ml

    Weight of PG: 1.038 grams per ml

    Weight of VG: 1.26 grams per ml

    Weight of Pure Nicotine: 1.01 grams per ml

    Weight of 100mg in PG: 1.035 grams per ml

    Weight of 60mg in PG: 1.03632 grams per ml

    Weight of 50mg in PG: 1.0366 grams per ml

    Weight of 48mg in PG: 1.036656 grams per ml

    Weight of 36mg in PG: 1.036992 grams per ml

    Weight of 24mg in PG: 1.037328 grams per ml

    Weight of 100mg in VG: 1.235 grams per ml

    Weight of 60mg in VG: 1.245 grams per ml

    Weight of 50mg in VG: 1.2475 grams per ml

    Weight of 48mg in VG: 1.248 grams per ml

    Weight of 36mg in VG: 1.251 grams per ml

    Weight of 24mg in VG: 1.254 grams per ml


    - If you are tired of giving it all you have to syringe 30 mL's of VG, try using a 60 cc catheter tip syringe. You'll save your arm and be doing your happy dance!

    - 25ml/50ml are convenient

    - 1 - Ultrasonic Cleaner for cleaning parts and making/aging home made e-liquid

    - a good professional grade UC can cost $90+. Some are buying as large as 6L, but don't go big and go cheap. Think abt what your use is going to be.
    - 40,000+ Hz frequency may be needed. Don't buy a weak UC. Some have dual transducers that vibrate the liquid.
    - stainless steel is a good option. Wipe down/clean the SS all the time or you will get water/lime deposits.
    - Should come with a VARIABLE heating/warming element and an ON/OFF switch for warming/heating, and be able to be on for 30 min straight. Don't over tighten bottles going in to the UC or the tops might crack when they cool. WATCH THE HEAT - TOO HIGH AND IT WILL KILL THE FLAVORS! Stay btw 120 > TEMP < 150F and test the results.
    - NOTE: Just having the UC ON will heat the water!!!
    - Think abt the size of the unit. Can it clean large syringes, 30+ ml bottles, several tanks/rda/rta/ etc, and be used for steeping of several large (125ml) batches of e-liquid?
    - The reason that they have cutoffs (3min for the cheap UC, 30min for the better UC) is that the 'motor' needs to cool down between cycles, as a rule of thumb let it rest for an equal amount of time as the cycle. Your cleaner will thank you by living a long and happy life.
    - It has been suggested to electrical tape the UC seams so "water" does not get in to the electronics. Also, you might want to tape the mixing bottles shut.
    - for a cleaning solution a lot of people use distilled-water/everclear/alcohol. Make sure the alcohol you use is safe! Don't put anything in the UC to clean parts that cannot be digested.
    - My UC has a degass mode to rid the UC fluids of air.
    - Can be used to quickly steep mixed nic/pg/vg/flavors. Steeping drops from 2 to 3 weeks to 2 to 3 days.
    - LEAVE THE TOPS ON THE BOTTLES WHILE STEEPING IN THE UC! You may need large rubber bands on the bottles to keep them upright.
    - ECF: @bobalex says to steep un UC for 15 to 25 cycles, others say far fewer <10. The bottles I use hold about 100ml. I make 70ml of juice per bottle. The last batch I had 6 bottles with a rubber band around them so they'd stand up straight in the cleaner. I filled the tank to just under the "max" line on the inside of the tank. I tried putting just one bottle in the cleaner but it fell over and floated on its side. I thought there might be a problem with water leaking into the bottle so that's why I bundled the bottles together with a rubber band.
    - ECF: @DigiManTX i have some smaller jars that i use when doing test batches... i rubber band them together and let them float... leave them in there for 2 days... every time i think about it i go run it for the 8+ min cycle... every now and then i'll check the water and if it's still warmer than "warm" i won't turn the heat cycle on... when it cools off a bit, i turn heat back on... a couple times a day i go in there grab them and give'em a good hand shake... don't think it's required, but that's just what ive been doing... other than that... 2 days of cycling then take them out.
    - ECF: @Mowgli to test if the UC is running properly, "hold a strip of aluminum foil in the water while it's running. It should shortly develop pin holes."
    - ECF: @Mowgli "I start with hot tap water. The UC activity maintains temp pretty well. I dump & refresh with hot tap water again when I start a new cycle after a cooling cycle."
    - ECF: Dannyv45 "always taste before you steep. It creates a baseline to compare maturity progress and can even let you know if you have to steep at all."
    - AMAZON CUSTOMER: "I have been warned by others that you sould never reach into an Ultrasonic Cleaner while it is running. No immediate buns or damage, but over time it can make the bones brittle... Do not know if it is true, but I thought I would pass it along."

    - DO NOT USE
    - Might introduce too much air, which would KILL the flavor and oxidize the nic quickly.
    - some have been looking for a lab bench blender. might be worth it for mixing steeping.
    - do not use glass beads in case they break up. use some type of metal that is spun within the liquid
    - some blenders have hot plates to warm liquids as they stir
  7. You can do it if you create a plan, and set your mind to it. My collection minus chargers, what I am currently using plus 2 gallons of Nude Nicotine in freezer should support me for 10 years at least. All items bought over last 6 months.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  8. An interesting question came up and I think if anyone has any documents or links to add for the disposal of liquid base/nicotine (100mg/ml) please place them below.

    #1) Leave explicit instructions on the handling, sale, disposal of all of your vaping supplies. I am sure the EPA would label manufactured nicotine liquid/base to be an "acutely toxic" substance from what I have read but it is easier to get rid of b/c it is a "household substance."

    This document is very interesting:
    "Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA), the federal RCRA hazardous waste regulations include an exemption for all hazardous waste generated by households (see the "household hazardous waste" exemption at 40 CFR 261.4(b)(l)). "

    Warnings you might use in your written documents:



    #2) Properly label all of your nicotine. Looks like "P075" is the EPA label for most nicotine. It may not apply for nic base, but I'm having a hard time finding an EPA number or designation for it.

    #3) Locate a local refuse/disposal company that would handle the waste. It must be incinerated.

    #4) And of all else fails... Links to Hazardous Waste Programs and U.S. State Environmental Agencies

    Nicotine disposal in the news: (A, B, C)
  9. nude-nicotine-site-banner-20pct.jpg
  10. [Originally posted December 29, 2015]

    My Predictions for 2016:

    - an increase of 30% more vapers to the mid to high end vaping (mech mods, box mods, regulated and unregulated), signalling a move away from and the death of ecigs
    - gas stations, Convenience, White Hen, 7-11 stores all across the country will become full line vape stores, and carry a minimum of 50 premium juices, killing the market for vape stores
    - vape stores all begin to carry tobacco, as they see the writing on the wall that they are going to be regulated and licensed as tobacco
    - nickel will fall out of favor as a wire type, as we solidify our stance on healthy vaping
    - box mods by the end of the year will all have TC for Kanthal
    - more tanks with 2/3/4 coils following in the footsteps of Smok TFV4
    - more tanks with clapton coils available, and they will be of a fancier manufacture than the current Aspire solution
    - manufacturers will expand premade wire solutions (2/3/4 twisted, clapton, stapled, etc.), and the prices will begin to fall
    - more RDAs with 24mm base, and possibly larger
    - more regulated 3 battery 18650's
    - more regulated 2 battery 26650's
    - surge in sale of unregulated box mods by the end of the year as people look for solutions to not being able to buy off the shelf hardware due to FDA and local rules
    - far more DIY going on
    - prices, which were falling for mech/mod devices may begin to reverse trend by the end of the year due to hoarding for fear FDA and local rules will make them difficult to obtain
    - before the FDA litigates their first case, more regulation at the State, County, City level
    - emergence of vape hardware and juice black market by the end of the year, as soon as people find there is no rolling back regulations
    - all juice prices move up in price, but raw materials for DIY more than double in cost, as DIY takes off
    - batteries improve by 20% in mah and amps delivered, led by Panasonic who was working with Tesla on their electric car
    - emergence of virus/trojan attack on vape hardware via bluetooth and upgrade path to mod, turns and attacks personal computers of users at work and home
    Romenov likes this.
  11. Hey!

    I'm not judging you when I say any of the following. Do as you wish. If your health seems good enough for you, then keep on going, but there is a price to be paid in the end for smoking. We're adults. We all know that. For me, my health was not good, and I could feel it. So I changed. I took up vaping.

    I quit smoking the first week I started vaping. I was truly addicted to the chemicals they put in to the Marlboro cigarettes, and I smoked them all except for the menthol. I've done Copenhagen, molasses plug, cigars of all kinds, and cigarettes over at least a decade. To be honest, I've lost count of how many years I smoked and how many times I've quit. This time, it seems for good.

    To me, at 12mg, the nicotine and e-liquid "solution to smoking" is so clean... I can go almost forever without needing to vape. I vape because I like to vape. That might not sound so scientific but I've gone 8hrs with no vaping at all, and was not stressed at all. Had I tried to do that when I was smoking, I would have become moody, or aggravated, and feeling low on energy, after 2 to 4 hours.

    I quit smoking for my health. I have heart related issues, bicuspid aortic valve - that now has me living with "senile aortic stenosis," which will require a valve at some time. My lungs have cleared up in the 6 months I've been vaping, and cardiac-wise, I feel fine. In my apartment, I'm looking at a new set of Kreitler rollers and my old Serotta racing bike that I have from my college days back in 93. I'm going to be getting on that soon.

    I shoveled the snow the other day here in a wild man, and walked back up two flights of stairs, NO PROBLEM. Didn't feel a thing negatively. No tightness in my chest. Didn't stop while shoveling. There was not much snow, but, I do not foresee any issues going forward. I'll be 56 this year.

    Can't imagine feeling better. If I quit vaping, I don't think I'd improve my lot. That's how good I think vaping is for me. I think it would be better if you only vaped too, but, we have just one life and you may as well do what you want for it's entirety.
    DaveP likes this.
  12. There will be a black market but what you will be able to obtain, and the quality of the goods is anyone's guess at this time. I just landed a new job and each month will be buying supplies just in case I cannot get any in the future. I do not plan on buying from a black market and will not be selling anything that I buy to anyone else.

    Some of the goods change rapidly (tanks, rdas, rtas, rbas, mech and box mods) so I would not rush to buy tons of them all at once in the first half of 2016 b/c new models are sure to arrive. Other needs will be available for quite a while after any crackdowns (wire, batteries, pg, vg, wiring devices, cotton, standalone freezer for nicotine which can hit -15F - which is not needed until your refrigerator freezer becomes too full) so you need to think about a logical order to what make the most sense to order first (5 gallons of nicotine with good seals and argon treatment from a reliable vendor that you know will last 10yrs, and flavors for recipes you've already tried and want, and maybe some prepared e-liquids b/c once the FDA rules come in to effect that could be the death knell for 75% of the e-liquids out there).

    Be wise. Don't buy 10 "tanks" from 10 different vendors that you expect to last 10yrs. Buy 10 "tanks" all of the same model from one vendor, which you already like, and buy spare parts kits along with them so that you have parts in case the supplies get cut off or they b/c difficult/expensive to obtain.

    Spend what you logically can, if you have the means to do so. I'm expecting the crackdown if any, to occur after the middle of the year in the USA. I know litigation will follow, but I do not know what orders from the executive branch will come down to speed the enforcement of FDA regulations before appeals are heard...or if vendors even will have the means to organize and put forth an appeal.

    Buy what you can use NOW. If no crackdown happens, you can use whatever you've purchased.

    What I'm buying in 2016. If the product is not available, I'll buy whatever is available.

    - at least 6 - 500ml of 100mg Nude Nicotine Armor v2, per month, until I have at least 5 gallons; PLUS 5 - Nude Nicotine Test Kits
    - Frigidaire Commercial 7.4 Cu. Ft., locking, chest freezer: FCCS071QW. I know I'll be storing more than the the extra capacity is no bother.
    - probably 10 Vulcan RDAs; 10 Twisted Messes RDAs; 10 Aspire Cleito Tanks: at least 10 boxes of Aspire coils which I hope to rebuild and backup supply kits (o-rings) for these devices
    - 5 - 26650 cylindrical mech mods from MCV Philippines; 5 - MCV Raptor box mods; 2 - 18650 (parallel and serial switchable) BC Box Mods; 2 - 26650 serial BC Box Mods; 2 - 26650 parallel BC Box Mods; 4 - Sigelei 200W box mods
    - 2 - Coilmaster 521 Tab Kits
    - Wire: Minimum to buy for each TYPE (Kanthal, TI, SS 316) order
    22 awg - 500 feet
    24 awg - 500 feet
    26 awg - 500 feet
    28 awg - 500 feet
    30 awg - 500 feet
    32 awg - 500 feet

    Ribbon Wire (Lightning Vapes)

    - Cotton: Several boxes of Koh Gen Do Cotton
    - 4+ more UD ceramic tip tweezers (flat tip if you can)
    - 1 decent reversible drill, does not need to be powerful b/c it is for wrapping wire
    - 1 label maker, P-Touch Brother for DIY and labeling nicotine, and plenty of tape
    Glinda and Feuille like this.
  13. It's a tough call on whether or not to conduct a search every time you want to post something in addition or completely new. I'd hate to try and regulate that sort of thing in an easy going forum. Rigidity and too many rules would make ECF a turn off. Most of the people here are very nice. I've come across a few who are not, and it may just be their personality or day. I'm not here to sell anything and have no stake.

    I often look at posts and that is what piques my interest in a subject matter, and if I require more info or want to throw down, I do so. I might post, I might not. I might start a new thread, I might not. Not that I have not used the tools available for research, I have, and ECF is very useful. Lots of knowledge here. There are many different levels of user etiquette, so I don't get all up in arms abt who posts what, and the best part is I'm not an admin here. (I'm an admin at although, I've not been hanging out there recently, I'm always welcomed back by the senior admins.) You make your bones, come and go, and take what you will. My toes have been stepped on everywhere and I do not wear a cape or get paid by the post, so it does not matter.

    Been through all the flame wars at college...and so I avoid most of them in places like this. Every name in the book that could be said, has been. We're a loosely affiliated team here. I do not think it necessary to back up every claim as most of the info is opinion for whatever that's worth. The taste of an e-liquid is going to be based on so many factors, it is almost nonsensical to even ask or provide detailed review. Mods, RDAs, and tanks made out of stainless and plastic vary less than 5%, but many swear there is a vast difference. Nonetheless, as a whole, we either work together or we're done. Etiquette is a tough one. Some get all flustered b/c they see their work going to waste. Sometimes, I throw down and do a ton of work, but lets face it, NOBODY CARES most of the time, and so it goes to waste. It is a way of passing/wasting time, or if put to good use, there may be some very valuable info in the very next post.

    My background probably explains my easy going attitude on what it is we are achieving here: owned my own ISP in two states where I managed around 10 to 15 daily in sales and software development 94 to 97 at two universities, Iowa State and Champaign-Urbana. BS MIS Big 12, AAS Cisco Internetworking, AA Architecture, AS General studies, EE Comp Eng 3rd year Big 12, and now am either going to more in to DevOps (VMware / Python / Microsoft / Linux) or get the heck out of IT altogether. I'd rather be doing something where I'm paid well, and aggravated by management very little. Sounds like I may be going back in to business for myself.

    williamclarkonet and anavidfan like this.
  14. I smoked cigarettes hard core for at least six years (probably more like 10, but I don't like to think about it) but never went a year without a cigar, and I'm 55. One year, when I was a manager of an ISP, I smoked several very good, very expensive ($) cigars a day while on the road driving. Initially I never wanted to quit, and always came back to smoking. Then I started to get a wee bit older and could not so easily quit. I could not find a replacement to my nicotine and chemical dependency, methodically put together by Philip Morris. I'm not sure what I've quit, too early to ascertain, but burning tobacco and inhaling it is NOT for me. I still like nicotine, and the flavors make this switch very palatable and easy on my body and mind.

    I was at a Styx (rock music) concert around two to three years ago and saw people vaping and wondered what they were smoking :D, I made some incorrect assumptions, and did not approach them, but the "smoke" they were exhaling I am sure did not go unnoticed by anyone....giant white clouds! Then I ran in to a neighbor who vapes pens, and it all became clear what was going on at the concert. I was like whoa...what the heck! I didn't start vaping at that time and continued on my way with my Marlboros. After going to the Dr and getting prescriptions for the patch and Nicotrol (big pharma solutions), I was on and off smoking for more than a year, and it was tearing at me. That garbage just would not let go of me and I was at 12mg to 20mg+ every day.

    An Internet search brought me to vaping and since Sept 7th, 2015, I have not turned back. The overall feeling is that this is clean. I am trying to stay away from any manufacturer of e-liquids that may produce anything harmful. I cannot believe that I was smoking cigarettes and cigars. They're nasty as all hell. If I have my way, I'll never be without my vaping tools and e-liquids.

    By 11/01/2015, I'll be placing my first order for liquid nicotine, Nude Nicotine Armor, 500ml +, and that will be the first of several 500ml purchases I order to guarantee that I am never without. I'm 50/50 that the US Govt could come down on the sale of these goods and I am NOT going to let this slip away from me. These people are fools, and would send everyone back to analogs (cigarettes and cigars). Chicago, Illinois just passed their new budget for an increase of $750 million in taxes for a budget gap, and they have been talking about a 25% TAX on all e-cig related products and juices! Hopefully, I'll get my order in before they manage to implement their taxes and they can all go take a hike.

    Shop around, try out, and read as much as you can here at ECF. I've been to more than 10 vape stores so far, and I drive to them up to 35 miles away, to see what they've got, and who they are. This is all changing beneath our feet as we chat.

    ECF is a great site, with many in depth documents, and people with a ton of knowledge...programmers, chemists, manufacturers, etc., be aggressive with gaining knowledge, this place rocks! :thumbs:
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