Awesome, can't wait to try these! You're the man Drew, and thanks a bunch for sending those tweezers that I hoped for with my last order!!! Now I have all the tools I need 
Love you guys...
Love you guys...Introducing Nhaler High Voltage Octane Liquids-10Mg 100% USA MADE
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Edited for clarity
Drew,
While I have no intention of disparaging the liquid (Nhaler is good stuff), I can't let pass the statement that many or all current liquids on the market contain D-nicotine. This is simply incorrect. Not being the natural stereoisomer of nicotine, D-nicotine is actually prohibitively expensive.
If one were to check the pricing at Sigma Aldrich, 1 gram of racemic nicotine (containing equal amounts of L and D nicotine) can be had for $413.50. 500 mL (505 grams) of L-nicotine can be had for $804 or $1.59 per gram. You can't even get pure D-nicotine from Sigma Aldrich (and if you could, it would probably go for over $1000 per gram. The simple reason for 1 gram of racemic nicotine being 260X more expensive than 1 gram of L-nicotine is that L-nicotine is natural and racemic nicotine is not, it had to be synthesized from non-nicotine starting materials.
L-nicotine is the enantiomer of nicotine isolated from tobacco, and is the enantiomer used in all e-liquds.
Since I have no doubt that you're on the up and up, I've got to assume that someone you're dealing with has been feeding you a line.
Drew,
While I have no intention of disparaging the liquid (Nhaler is good stuff), I can't let pass the statement that many or all current liquids on the market contain D-nicotine. This is simply incorrect. Not being the natural stereoisomer of nicotine, D-nicotine is actually prohibitively expensive.
If one were to check the pricing at Sigma Aldrich, 1 gram of racemic nicotine (containing equal amounts of L and D nicotine) can be had for $413.50. 500 mL (505 grams) of L-nicotine can be had for $804 or $1.59 per gram. You can't even get pure D-nicotine from Sigma Aldrich (and if you could, it would probably go for over $1000 per gram. The simple reason for 1 gram of racemic nicotine being 260X more expensive than 1 gram of L-nicotine is that L-nicotine is natural and racemic nicotine is not, it had to be synthesized from non-nicotine starting materials.
L-nicotine is the enantiomer of nicotine isolated from tobacco, and is the enantiomer used in all e-liquds.
Since I have no doubt that you're on the up and up, I've got to assume that someone you're dealing with has been feeding you a line.
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Edited for clarity
It's true that d-nicotine is quantitatively much less active than l-nicotine (animal studies here, here, and here), but l-nicotine is what we should have been getting all along, correct?
Drew, I'm not sure where you are getting the information that e-liquids commonly contain d-nicotine, though I would be very interested to see data if any of them do.
L-nicotine, which (as you quote) is the naturally-occurring form in tobacco, is what should be present in all of our eliquids, given that they are all extracted from tobacco.
Snus contains l-nicotine because it is a tobacco product; cigarette smoke delivers l-nicotine; eliquid should contain l-nicotine because it is a purified product of tobacco....and while I'm unfamiliar with the extraction process, I'm not sure how it could alter the isomer itself.
(ETA: Sorry for the redundant post...DVap beat me to it.)
(And to add: I love my Xhaler and it's always been a pleasure doing business with you, Drew... I'm just quite curious about this.)
It's true that d-nicotine is quantitatively much less active than l-nicotine (animal studies here, here, and here), but l-nicotine is what we should have been getting all along, correct?
Drew, I'm not sure where you are getting the information that e-liquids commonly contain d-nicotine, though I would be very interested to see data if any of them do.
L-nicotine, which (as you quote) is the naturally-occurring form in tobacco, is what should be present in all of our eliquids, given that they are all extracted from tobacco.
Snus contains l-nicotine because it is a tobacco product; cigarette smoke delivers l-nicotine; eliquid should contain l-nicotine because it is a purified product of tobacco....and while I'm unfamiliar with the extraction process, I'm not sure how it could alter the isomer itself.
(ETA: Sorry for the redundant post...DVap beat me to it.)
(And to add: I love my Xhaler and it's always been a pleasure doing business with you, Drew... I'm just quite curious about this.)
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Nope. Snus owes it whole tobacco alkaloid profile to the fact that it is processed tobacco. Purified nicotine loses the rest of the tobacco alkaloid profile. The strong point of this liquid, as I see it, is that it is entirely U.S. made (a good thing), and is made from pharmaceutical grade nicotine. High quality starting materials = high quality product.
When I was initially introduced to these liquids I immediatley noticed that they appeared much stronger...When I asked the lead Chemist why he went into a long winded explanation that I had a hard time understanding...But he did make clear the word Levarotatory and told me that was the reason...I then did some research on my own and found many studies clearly showing that the the effects of L-Nic was stronger...I therefore assumed that if L-Nic was used in this and it was stronger then the other must be D-Nic...
Below is one of the studies I found with a link and a quote
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Dose-response relationships for optically pure (-)- and (+)nicotine as well as antagonistic effects were examined in both groups of rats. The natural isomer (-)nicotine was approximately nine-times more potent than (+)nicotine. Mecamylamine produced equal blockade of the (-)- and (+)nicotine cues. Hexamethonium and atropine were without effect. These data demonstrate the possible stereospecificity of the central nicotinic receptor that mediates the stimulus effect produced by nicotine.
So I have a pretty strong feeling that he is not lying about weather the L-Nicotine is the reason that this liquid is mcuh more satisfying then ALL the others I have tried...(and I have tried ALL of them)...He wasnt trying to convince me that they were stronger but more explaining WHY they effected me so much differently...Thanks
Drew
Below is one of the studies I found with a link and a quote
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Dose-response relationships for optically pure (-)- and (+)nicotine as well as antagonistic effects were examined in both groups of rats. The natural isomer (-)nicotine was approximately nine-times more potent than (+)nicotine. Mecamylamine produced equal blockade of the (-)- and (+)nicotine cues. Hexamethonium and atropine were without effect. These data demonstrate the possible stereospecificity of the central nicotinic receptor that mediates the stimulus effect produced by nicotine.
So I have a pretty strong feeling that he is not lying about weather the L-Nicotine is the reason that this liquid is mcuh more satisfying then ALL the others I have tried...(and I have tried ALL of them)...He wasnt trying to convince me that they were stronger but more explaining WHY they effected me so much differently...Thanks
Drew
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OK, not going anywhere near the chem lab stuff, LOL.
I just found out that the sample which I loved so much is now called Signature Tobacco. This stuff is just DEE-licious!!! I have difficulty describing flavors sometimes, but if I had to compare it to other tobacco flavors, I'd say it has hints of Virginia Tobacco and Kent along with something else I can't quite describe. I'm gonna be getting some of this one for sure! The one now called Plain Tobacco was also very good and very comparable to a good Marlbro flavor. I just vaped a bunch of the Menthol and for a non-menthol smoker, this stuff has a very pleasant and interesting taste. Bravo Drew, you've got some winning flavors here dude!
Thanks again for the test samples Drew, I'm looking fwd to all of the new flavors to come!
Ed
I just found out that the sample which I loved so much is now called Signature Tobacco. This stuff is just DEE-licious!!! I have difficulty describing flavors sometimes, but if I had to compare it to other tobacco flavors, I'd say it has hints of Virginia Tobacco and Kent along with something else I can't quite describe. I'm gonna be getting some of this one for sure! The one now called Plain Tobacco was also very good and very comparable to a good Marlbro flavor. I just vaped a bunch of the Menthol and for a non-menthol smoker, this stuff has a very pleasant and interesting taste. Bravo Drew, you've got some winning flavors here dude!
Thanks again for the test samples Drew, I'm looking fwd to all of the new flavors to come!
Ed
Well that was my thought. Adding a couple of drops of the Plain Tobacco to any and all cartos to kick them up a notch. But I'm sure that once other flavors are introduced I will find other combos.
Well I took the bait and ordered some sample bottles.
Drew is the Spicy one the hulk flavor everyone was talking about?
Also when are you getting more 510 attys in? I had to order pink ones!
Drew is the Spicy one the hulk flavor everyone was talking about?
Also when are you getting more 510 attys in? I had to order pink ones!
Drew, while it is certainly true that d-nic is less active than l-nic, it is also certainly true, as DVap said, that d-nic is prohibitively expensive to make. It simply makes no sense chemically and economically for any company to package and sell d-nic. Extraction from tobacco is far and away the cheapest way to make nic and it is all l-nic. Perhaps the chemist did not purposefully lie, but perhaps also he did not know the facts around natural product chemistry. People new to a professional chemistry job can often have plenty of incorrect assumptions, especially if they are without advanced degrees in organic chemistry.
Do you know in particular which companies are selling d-nic? I view this as a very serious matter, since long term effects of d-nic are not known, regardless of its short term activity on the brain. Wrong stereo isomers of bioactive compounds can be a problem over the long term. And the FDA would be totally out of its already insane mind about this. This is not about just a less active ingredient, this is about an essentially wrong compound being sold as natural nicotine. If someone is selling this, the people here should know who they are, and they should be contacted to verify this.
But really, I'm with DVap: you have a great company with excellent products, and innovative herbal juices, but this d-nic thing makes no sense to someone who knows organic chemistry well. I know you have no reason not to trust this chemist, but I believe he either does not know the field well, or he's come up with a way to fool those who know the field less than he does. Chemically, this makes no sense.
Hey Kurt,
I cant comment on what is in other liquids and I guess my assumption about what other liquids used was premature or incorrect....I am just making sure people understand that these liquids seem stronger than all the other liquids I have used to date...
I just want to try and give people a heads up about the differences...
Thanks
Drew
I cant comment on what is in other liquids and I guess my assumption about what other liquids used was premature or incorrect....I am just making sure people understand that these liquids seem stronger than all the other liquids I have used to date...
I just want to try and give people a heads up about the differences...
Thanks
Drew
Drew, if I am not mistaken, this new liquid is similar to the 16mg sample you sent me a while back. I can say that it did seem strong for a 16mg liquid. I assume that this is because of the high quality of nicotine being used to make it. I still have some of that sample and think that now would be a good time to try some more of it.
I have been vaping some more of what Drew sent me and can say that this 16mg vapes like a 30 or 36mg liquid to me. I didn't really get a hard nic buzz but the throat hit is great and I can definitely tell I am getting some good nic from it.
I am excited to try the new juice, Drew!!! but I'm going to wait for the non tobacco flavors, I hope you do a Pralines & Cream version, that's my favorite!
Well folks, just got my Octane samplers. I have to admit I have been chain vaping for a while now with other juices because I just wasn't getting enough. I loaded up a fresh G300 cart with Signature Octane 10MG. I figured at 10MG, it might be good but......
This stuff gave me a small nic high when I tried chain vaping it as I have been with the other juices. The delivery is definatly there! The flavor is good too. This actually reminded me of smoking more than anything I've done to date. Most of the tobacco flavors I've tried ended up tasting burnt after about half a cart (all 24MG). Drew, you've made me so much happier with my decision to quit analogs.
16MG might be about perfect in this stuff delivery wise, but may end up with that burnt taste easier (any input you have on this will be noted Drew). I'll take this 10MG non burnt over 16MG if it burns easier.
3 monthes analog free after 16 years of reds!
This stuff gave me a small nic high when I tried chain vaping it as I have been with the other juices. The delivery is definatly there! The flavor is good too. This actually reminded me of smoking more than anything I've done to date. Most of the tobacco flavors I've tried ended up tasting burnt after about half a cart (all 24MG). Drew, you've made me so much happier with my decision to quit analogs.
16MG might be about perfect in this stuff delivery wise, but may end up with that burnt taste easier (any input you have on this will be noted Drew). I'll take this 10MG non burnt over 16MG if it burns easier.
3 monthes analog free after 16 years of reds!
Just received my samples of the new Octane juices. As far as the nic goes, I really can't tell anymore. I will say I'm getting a better throat hit on this than on the regular HV juice. Excellent vapor production as well. Now on the taste, if you like 555 you'll love the Signature Tobacco blend. It's not quite as nutty (that's a good thing for me) and little or no sweetness to it. Very nice dry tobacco flavor. As I get into this I must say I'm getting huge clouds of vapor. Amazing. I'm gonna stop here and enjoy this for a while. I'll be back with some thoughts on the Menthol later. Damn, I'm blown away by the vapor.8-o
Quick edit: Nic buzz happening ........wow!
Quick edit: Nic buzz happening ........wow!
I'm also loving the Signature Tobacco...great flavor, great vapor and the level of nicotine does seem to be more than enough for me. To me there is a very slight sweetness to it like a mild Virginia tobacco. Like Pete54 said, it is a very nice tobacco flavor with loads of vapor. I've vaped about 8-10 ml of this stuff over the last few weeks and it is becoming one of my favorites along with Drewbacco and 555.
This is a GREAT tobacco liquid!
The Plain Tobacco tasted just like a Marlboro Light to me and is one of the closest I've found to a true analog taste.
I am definitely enjoying this new line of juices Drew!
This is a GREAT tobacco liquid!
The Plain Tobacco tasted just like a Marlboro Light to me and is one of the closest I've found to a true analog taste.
I am definitely enjoying this new line of juices Drew!
I have a sampler but haven't tried it yet. It is next on my list to try and I'll be sure to post my thoughts here.
btw, dgriego was asking if the spice tobacco was the hulkbacco and I just wanted to let you know that it is NOT the green hulkbacco.
**I am just now dripping some Spice Tobacco into a 306 atty on a 510 battery...will update after a good vape session...
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