Bad News from Europe

[Codz]

It seems that regulations & restrictions have been agreed by the EU Commission;

Parliament adopts new EU tobacco rules | European Voice

There's more about it on another thread here on ECF;

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...len-big-money-has-triumphed.html#post12362300

Not a good day for vaping.

 

[djsvapour]

Very bad news. Not the 100% killer blow, but a nasty shot to many.

 

[Lucky1384]

Hmm Wonder what regulation means in the long run, and if there will be a long warning before implementation. It's as cloudy as I would expect and obviously thought out by people who have done no research.

So anything higher than a 20mg/ml will be banned? Only a mention of carts but not tanks. Regulated as medicines, so prescriptions for crappy carts or OTC? I for one will certainly live as an outlaw if I have to. I've tried the 'acceptable' Nicorette inhalator and it was a terrible experience I never wish to repeat.

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Sad. And a mention of regulating online sales as well. Sad indeed.

 

[Codz]

Hmm Wonder what regulation means in the long run, and if there will be a long warning before implementation. It's as cloudy as I would expect and obviously thought out by people who have done no research.

So anything higher than a 20mg/ml will be banned? Only a mention of carts but not tanks. Regulated as medicines, so prescriptions for crappy carts or OTC? I for one will certainly live as an outlaw if I have to. I've tried the 'acceptable' Nicorette inhalator and it was a terrible experience I never wish to repeat.

Judging from the article i posted a link to the 'no cartridges over 2ml' is likely to include anything over 2ml, but they also say no refillable cartridges, which will mean no refillable anything, and if you cant get refills then it's almost certain to mean juice will no longer be available either. You can bet that it will be BT or pharma companies that will be the only players left in the market (smaller ecig companies will probably not be able to afford to keep running or will get swallowed up by BT & pharma). When you look at the prices of the crappy cig-a-likes available now you can guarantee they will go up even without the inevitable high taxation that will be added, and it wouldnt suprise me in the least to see the effective cost of vaping become more expensive than analogs.

Basically, we will be left with non-refillable cartos up to 2ml or black market / home made options or hoarding supplies before any of this happens IF it happens. I must admit i'm becoming less optimistic about it all now.

 

[zeroclue]

Just gone through the links,

Cigarettes will be sold only in packs of 20 (minimum).
Roll your own tobacco in 30g pouch (minimum).
Phase out menthol cigarettes, to be banned.

Now the important bit,
Cig a likes will still be available.
Pre filled cartridges will still be available.
Refillable cartridges will still be available, but hold a maximum of 2ml. Individual designs/products will not be banned unless they are proven to be unsafe.


"Refillable cartridges will not be banned. However member states can ban specific types of cartridges, if the ban can be justified by safety concerns."


Liquid can only contain 20mg nic (maximum)
All flavoured nic liquid including menthol will be banned (zero nic liquid and flavours are not included).

EUROPA - PRESS RELEASES - Press release - Questions & Answers: New rules for tobacco products

Is that right?
All it says is regulations/restrictions will be put in place, does anyone have any links to further info?

 

[djsvapour]

I don't get it.

Many vapers own multiple tanks over 2ml. They can either rebuild or use a coil from an evod or whatever.

Do I have to take my collection to the police station? .. Protank amnesty?

 

[zeroclue]

I don't get it either :-/

SALES will be banned, you can GIVE me your collection though

 

[Codz]

All flavoured nic liquid including menthol will be banned (zero nic liquid and flavours are not included).

Unless i got into DIY / started hoarding and freezing / could pick up black market liquid this would be the end of my vaping days.

It doesnt really matter what the govt. says - we all know it's about money, not our health and we all know that the world of big business cares far more about ££ than it does about peoples lives. Lets face it, if lives were more important they could have stopped producing cigarettes any time.

I'm sure we will soon be seeing the results of various clinical trials telling us all about the hidden dangers of ecigs soon enough (i know there are already a few floating around). Even if it's a govt. backed study the publised results cant be trusted. These trials and test have to be funded and whoever they are funded by has an agenda so the results simply further that agenda. That works both ways too... if a group of ecig producing companies got together and funded trials we already know what to expect from the results, but then we are already pretty damned sure that ecigs are better for us than analogs.

I truly hope that it spawns a massive black market trade that spirals out of control if these regulations come to be.

I dont agree with so much of what UKIP have to say for themselves, but i think i may have overlook their other policies and vote for them next time around simply because of this situation. I hope every vaper does the same.

 

[djsvapour]

SALES will be banned, you can GIVE me your collection though

LOL

To be honest, up until today I'd have given any vaping bod in the street a Protank from my collection.

Now I'm not so sure. I have enough wick and wire to rebuild until 2018 at least.

 

[Codz]

I don't get it.

Many vapers own multiple tanks over 2ml. They can either rebuild or use a coil from an evod or whatever.

Do I have to take my collection to the police station? .. Protank amnesty?

haha, i was thinking the same thing earlier... handing over your clearos and RBAs down the local nick.

Imagine getting stopped by the police who see you vaping with something over 2ml and then asking you to hand it over!

 

[Codz]

Presumably the ban on liquid flavours would be to prevent kids getting into it. The age old 'wont somebody please think of the children' argument is endlessly dredged up.

Its absolutely crazy, if the argument is that we dont want to be encouraging kids to smoke and we dont want to encourage new smokers to start vaping and then move on to smoking, why on earth is the only flavour likely to be allowed tobacco flavour!!! Of all the possible flavours that could have been chosen!!

 

[zeroclue]

I'm not sure if tobacco is included in the 'all flavours' bit, maybe only unflavoured will be available. ..I can vape ice cream syrup in my unflavoured, right?

lol, surely they can't ban all the individual items, logically the only thing they could control is the nicotine, although I've seen posts on here from members living with a blanket ban already in place :-(

 

[emus]

Cancer death is horrible. Horrible. Still hard to wrap my head around the money over harm reduction mentality. It seems too many people care about riches at the expense of other's extreme suffering.

 

[adamfoul]

All flavoured nic liquid including menthol will be banned (zero nic liquid and flavours are not included).

Unless i got into DIY / started hoarding and freezing / could pick up black market liquid this would be the end of my vaping days.

I assume unflavoured won't be banned? I mix my own juice anyway, which I'd have to do differently (wouldn't be able to get 72mg), but most of the flavours used are also used in cooking, and there is no way they can stop you getting that and putting a few drops in your unflavoured.

It still amazes me that they use the arguement about reglamourizing smoking... Surely there must be some MPs, or MPs that know someone who has quit smoking in favour of e cigs, who can tell them what a ridiculous idea this is. "I'm fed up of this delicious [insert favourite juice] flavour, I'm going to go lick this ash tray instead." ..... Said absolutely no one. (And that's just about flavour, not to mention the health or cost benefits)

 

[Codz]

I assume unflavoured won't be banned? I mix my own juice anyway, which I'd have to do differently (wouldn't be able to get 72mg), but most of the flavours used are also used in cooking, and there is no way they can stop you getting that and putting a few drops in your unflavoured.

It still amazes me that they use the arguement about reglamourizing smoking... Surely there must be some MPs, or MPs that know someone who has quit smoking in favour of e cigs, who can tell them what a ridiculous idea this is. "I'm fed up of this delicious [insert favourite juice] flavour, I'm going to go lick this ash tray instead." ..... Said absolutely no one. (And that's just about flavour, not to mention the health or cost benefits)

I hope you are right about the continued availability of unflavoured nic liquid, but i have a feeling that the intention is to prohibit the sale of any kind of liquid other than that which comes in pre-filled, unrefillable cartos, which will be a real shame. If the argument is based on glamourizing smoking, and keeping kids away from it, then surely flavoured liquid could still be available, if only through licensed retailers selling licensed products (i.e - pharmacies). They are going to take more care not to sell to under 18s than your average corner shop.

 

[Mousey]

I love the whole quote about a tobacco free Europe, if that's what they're pushing towards why are they trying to ban ecigs so damned hard.

Effing big pharma and tobacco, makes me sick to my stomach.

Time to start hoarding! Need several lifetime's worth of liquid components and some flavour essences

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[SPACKlick]

I hope you are right about the continued availability of unflavoured nic liquid, but i have a feeling that the intention is to prohibit the sale of any kind of liquid other than that which comes in pre-filled, unrefillable cartos, which will be a real shame. If the argument is based on glamourizing smoking, and keeping kids away from it, then surely flavoured liquid could still be available, if only through licensed retailers selling licensed products (i.e - pharmacies). They are going to take more care not to sell to under 18s than your average corner shop.

It's not to be banned Refill Liquid can be sold in containers which are Child and Tamper proof up to 10ml and no stronger than 20mg/ml.

 

[zeroclue]

The regulations/restrictions are very unclear atm, no doubt they are still trying to figure out the best way to get their hands on our money if we are no longer buying cigs.

If they were truly thinking of future generations they would be testing ecigs/doing research and looking at the possibility of phasing out tobacco instead.

We are proof that quitting tobacco can be (easily) achieved and health benefits are being reported by users. Even if they are not 100% safe, they are still safer than tobacco cigarettes/products.

There are people fighting to get a ban and people fighting against it, our numbers are growing and not only uses but businesses too, we are the ones with something to fight for. All we can do is try to overwhelm them and stomp out the misinformation. It's going to come down to the right voices in the right places and of course the £££ side of things.

I still can't see how they can ban mods, flavours and diy etc, by themselves they contain no nicotine, devices can be put together at home. Hopefully they are just trying to pacify the 'against' mob and we won't be affected too badly.

 

[SPACKlick]

I still can't see how they can ban mods, flavours and diy etc, by themselves they contain no nicotine, devices can be put together at home. Hopefully they are just trying to pacify the 'against' mob and we won't be affected too badly.

The same way they can ban the various components of a Gun. Because it's primary use is for performing an activity they seek to regulate.

Batteries will likely not be regulated, batteries with eg0,501,808 adapters on likely will be. The real issue is the 20mg/ml limit on Nicotine sales. I'm fine under that (i vape at 10-12) but I'm well aware of vapers out there who wouldn't have made the switch without their 36's and 24s.
E-Cigs are NOT medical devices, you aren't being given a dose in order to TREAT something. You are self dosing, like with alcohol, and controling that yourself. It's hard to OD with an e-cig and the OD on a e-cig is dizziness...

Fark this bill, fark this vote.